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Launch HN: Common Paper (YC W23) – SAFEs for Commercial Contracts

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71–80 of 169 posts

Re: Launch HN: Common Paper (YC W23) – SAFEs for Commercial Contracts

#71

This is one of those things that sounds cool at first but in reality, the sheer volume of edge cases because the real problem I bet this is gonna raise funding though

I agree that the edge cases make this extremely challenging. That goes both for making the standard contracts and the software that manages them.

For each contract, we go through a multi-month process with 40+ attorneys to vet the standards against all of the permutations they've seen without making the agreements too complex.

On the software side, this is a big part of the value of structured data. We make it easier to keep track of the different variations you've agreed to in different contracts. It's a tricky balance to make sure our users are never constrained from closing new customers while still making sure the software sticks to and takes advantage of the standards.

Re: Launch HN: Common Paper (YC W23) – SAFEs for Commercial Contracts

#72
post #69

You picked a great name! I wish we could see something similar for the HIPAA business associate agreements in healthcare. It's pretty standard language, and a substantial part of healthcare contracts. I had to chuckle about the choice of court example on your website - it comes up so frequently, even I am aware of it, despite being on the tech side.

I really appreciate that, and stay tuned for a standard BAA coming soon. If you'd like to get a preview, email me jake at commonpaper.com

Re: Launch HN: Common Paper (YC W23) – SAFEs for Commercial Contracts

#74
We've been using CommonPaper for our contracts and NDAs since we started selling. It's been super useful during negotiations and makes it way easier for clients who don't have lawyers to understand what's going on in the terms.

Congrats team on the launch!

Re: Launch HN: Common Paper (YC W23) – SAFEs for Commercial Contracts

#75
This guy Art Vandelay is a real piece of work, consider all agreements with him with top care.

Btw love the product. Would be nice to have optional blocks with explainers. Something like special terms. Also, LLMs would be nice so that you could ‘chat’ with the document to understand it better. Make it explainable. Or to help you define specific parts such as the subject of the NDA, which are typically too broad or undefined. LLMs could help users better define those parts by asking questions and writing the subject section.

Re: Launch HN: Common Paper (YC W23) – SAFEs for Commercial Contracts

#76
post #24

What would you say to someone who is wondering if this is an attempt at a technical solution to a social problem?

CTO and Co-founder here. While we certainly are using technology to help solve the problem, it's more about creating contracts in a way that helps you focus on the key changes from contract to contract. When you build on immutable terms, and the only changes are in the contract's cover sheet, you can focus on the changes and not hunt down for words inside of an inscrutable PDF.

Are your founders lawyers, by chance? It seems like you understand the customer pain, but it's possible that creating a fix for this pain requires an intimate knowledge of how the legal community will react. As GP stated, this could be a social problem, and in that case it is one that is caused/perpetuated by lawyers. Or it could just be a matter of incentive misalignment.

Having deep insights into the mindset and financial incentives of lawyers would seem to be key here (but if you're funded by YC, presumably you've already been asked this question and come up with a good answer!).

Re: Launch HN: Common Paper (YC W23) – SAFEs for Commercial Contracts

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's totally fair, and it might be partially a function of price point. If, say we can help our customers close a bunch of deals at $20k each, that's very different than a company who has an average price point of $1k each. You're always welcome to use the agreements for free separate from our software. One thing I'll note is that we do support importing contracts on customer paper / or deals executed outside our s…

Can you help me understand how this platform, or the contracts alone, would help me close deals? I've never had a deal fall apart at this phase, or in a way that I could imagine this helping. If the pitch is that it would save money on legal fees, then that could be a big value add. But if that's the angle, then my last question, regarding whether the docs are meant to be closed-universe and vetted, or open-universe…

There are a few related things here:

By making contract review and negotiation faster, we speed up your sales cycle and grow revenue faster. Faster sales cycles mean that you get paid faster, which in turn means that you can recycle cash into new customer acquisition investments and grow faster. We wrote a blog post about the math of how sales cycle speed translates to revenue growth here: https://commonpaper.com/blog/impact-of-accelerating-sales-cy...

Some of our users work with attorneys, and some do not. For the folks who do work with attorneys, we still make those relationships more efficient because the scope of negotiation is more narrow. As a simple example, if the attorney helps the founder understand the implications of increasing or decreasing a liability cap, it's straightforward for them to apply that info on their own for many deals in the future. With traditional bespoke contracts, if they see a bunch of redlines to a paragraph about liability, it's much harder for them to reason about whether or not this is safe to sign.

We try to help users understand what sort of information tends to go in each variable, but we stop short of providing customized advice. So we can help people understand that a liability cap might be a fixed number (eg $1 million), a multiple of fees paid (eg 1X the last 12 months fees), or unlimited. But we can't advise them on whether or not their particular company should take the risk of a particular level of cap in order to close a particular customer. That's the sort of thing they should talk to an attorney about.

Re: Launch HN: Common Paper (YC W23) – SAFEs for Commercial Contracts

#78
post #75

This guy Art Vandelay is a real piece of work, consider all agreements with him with top care. Btw love the product. Would be nice to have optional blocks with explainers. Something like special terms. Also, LLMs would be nice so that you could ‘chat’ with the document to understand it better. Make it explainable. Or to help you define specific parts such as the subject of the NDA, which are typically too broad or un…

The optional block/explainer bit is how Westlaw practical law works. It seems like the main advantage of this over having lawyers who each have access to some tool that is proposing optional sections is that in this model, the end users agree to limit themselves to the optional blocks but they aren’t getting advice on what they mean.

The first is an improvement but without the second I’d be a little concerned. The construction industry has stock contracts like these and I’ve seen them go sideways for sure.

Re: Launch HN: Common Paper (YC W23) – SAFEs for Commercial Contracts

#79
post #75

This guy Art Vandelay is a real piece of work, consider all agreements with him with top care. Btw love the product. Would be nice to have optional blocks with explainers. Something like special terms. Also, LLMs would be nice so that you could ‘chat’ with the document to understand it better. Make it explainable. Or to help you define specific parts such as the subject of the NDA, which are typically too broad or un…

I suspect you might enjoy signing an NDA with Vandelay Industries https://app.commonpaper.com/pages/eceaa29b0494074a

Great point on optional blocks/special terms. We have a project on the roadmap to make it easier to incorporate entries from the language library into your agreements https://commonpaper.com/language-library/

We're always looking for additional ways to help people understand the agreements and figure out how to configure them. I agree LLMs could provide help there, and it will be fun to figure out the right way to leverage them

Re: Launch HN: Common Paper (YC W23) – SAFEs for Commercial Contracts

#80
Ran it by our Legal Department. The inability to customize all aspects of the contracts to handle specific needs for each contract renders this DOA.

What you see as unnecessary negotiation over "standard terms" they see as protecting the company's specific interests based on its needs and risk tolerances. By eliminating that, you've eliminated most of the potential market, since differences over "standard terms" usually reflect significant differences in each parties' specific legal needs and risk tolerances. It seems that you're targeting SV tech companies that all use the same group of VCs, which explains why they have a lot of standard terms they can all agree on. But once you expand outside of this narrow niche (and especially if your contracts involve foreign counterparties), this list of common standard terms selected by a third party that both counterparties can agree on without review or negotiation goes to zero. Even just a cursory review of the Professional Services Agreement raised several huge red flags that no competent Legal Department should agree to...

Also, any company that needs standardized contracting so they can automate processes based on that is large enough that they can simply demand their counterparties use their standard contracts...you're not getting Oracle and Apple or large companies to use these contracts (and especially not non-tech companies), and that means any customers who are dealing with such counterparties will need a separate process for handling those contracts, which makes contract management more complex, not less.

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