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Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

nytimes.com

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Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#111

Post by [deleted] »

nineplay wrote: post #104
sghiassy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that you wouldn't classify TikTok as social media. How would you characterize it?

I suppose I'd call it a video sharing platform. "Social media", to me, has an implication of media that is shared within a social circle. Facebook is social media because the intention is to share information with friends and family. No one is posting on FB hoping to have it go viral and make a pile of cash off it. TikToc is content creators sharing their videos with the whole world.

[deleted]

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#112

Post by Aromasin »

bart_spoon wrote: post #68
KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What reasonable action could be taken on the parent side? I feel like apps should be regulated to for example, only show up to 20 videos max on tiktok per day to prevent doom scrolling. I don't think preventing kids from accessing social media entirely is viable or reasonable.

Children have been around for 7 billion years. Only the last 20 years have children grown up with social media for even part of their childhood. Do you truly believe it has now become that critical to the childhood experience? Especially given avalanche of research demonstrating its harm?

The last 20 years haven't just seen an increase in social media usage though; it's seen a decrease in socializing between kids outside of school. It's easy to remove access to their socials. It's very hard to replace that with a function social life outside of school. That's a recipe for resentment and rebellion. That's not going to happen without input at a every level of society to bring back that mall/skate rink/play park culture that has all but disappeared. We need to stop calling parents irresponsible for not watching their child's every move. That's where the difficulty lies.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#113

Post by 13years »

It is a profound risk to everyone in different ways.

It's very nature induces abnormal behavior.

I recently wrote an article of some perspectives on the topic. Focusing on how the lack of privacy is a key factor.

https://open.substack.com/pub/dakara/p/uniform-thought-machi...

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#114

Post by scythe »

bart_spoon wrote: post #59
CharlesW wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There has always been a small but consistent group of parents who stand firmly on their decision to delay giving their child broad access to social media until later, and the vast, vast majority who can't be bothered to. For the latter group, do you feel like it's always willful ignorance? For example, some parents think you're talking about TikTok, when (as I'm sure you know) it often starts with Roblox/Minecraft…

Every time this topic comes up, many of the responses here are about how it is pointless to try and impose limits on social media (or anything for that matter) on children, as they will inevitably circumvent them or something like that. To me it comes off like mental gymnastics to excuse a failure to actually parent.

It doesn't really matter if they circumvent it. The problem with social media is not exposure, it's overstimulation/"addiction". If you put an inconvenience between the kid and the stimulus, you're already more than halfway there. If they need to use a desktop and a VPN to go on Instagram, they can't spend as much time on it.

Likewise, the kid will smoke less weed and drink less beer if they have to hide it and jump through hoops to get it. Most of the studies showing harmful effects of drug/alcohol consumption on teenagers identify subgroups who used multiple times per week or every day. Interpolating these effects linearly, they usually become very small below once per week.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#115

Post by nineplay »

jjulius wrote: post #96
nineplay wrote: post #86

I have lost patience with articles about kids and teens and "social media" that make no attempt to define what social media is. It is no wonder parents won't seriously - particularly when the follow up advice is "don't give your kids phones" as though it's all or nothing. Could we please get a list of social media kids are using and their relative levels of harm? If it's mostly Instagram then say Instagram and parent…

>I have lost patience with articles about kids and teens and "social media" that make no attempt to define what social media is. It is no wonder parents won't seriously - particularly when the follow up advice is "don't give your kids phones" as though it's all or nothing. This article is about social media, and doesn't suggest an all-or-nothing approach of not giving kids phones. Hell, a ctrl+f for "phone" brings up…

You have some fair points. Some of my criticism is not about the linked article but about the inevitable follow up discussions that usually have a heavy dose of "why are these lousy parents giving kids phones anyway?".

Am I in the minority of not thinking of TikTok and YouTube as social media? Perhaps it's only in my head. I mention shared google docs because I've actually seen bullying behavior in shared google docs - it's an easy way for kids to talk to each other with their school laptops outside of any other supervision.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#116

Post by al_ak »

nineplay wrote: post #104
sghiassy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that you wouldn't classify TikTok as social media. How would you characterize it?

I suppose I'd call it a video sharing platform. "Social media", to me, has an implication of media that is shared within a social circle. Facebook is social media because the intention is to share information with friends and family. No one is posting on FB hoping to have it go viral and make a pile of cash off it. TikToc is content creators sharing their videos with the whole world.

I think you're underestimating the draw of para-social relationships. That's what powers the "social media" part of TikTok. I think it would be disingenous to suggest that TikTok is anything other than social media.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#117

Post by zo1 »

swader999 wrote: post #21
youreincorrect wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't give your kid a smartphone or laptop without only whitelisting certain sites. If they somehow get a device without permission, it gets donated.

Isolating them from their peers can be just as mentally devastating. I don't think there is a good solution to this.

Sure there is: Identify the degenerate behaviour and punish it. Whatever that may be and 51% of us can agree on. If that's tik tok, all social media, YouTube, infinite scroll, use generated media websites, drug misogyny and degenerate sex promoting lyrics, violent fps games, drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, ads aimed at children, pictures of swastikas, hormone altering medicine, or whatever, so be it.

If you don't ban it at the source and society-wide, then parents are left with very little means to protect their children's development and growth into good individuals that reflect their beliefs.

I don't get how we're being so laissez-faire and willing to just "see where it goes" when it comes to our society and our future as a species. We're at a critical juncture right now and need to make a decision; we can't fence sit any longer while the winds of peer pressure randomly drag us wherever and based on nothing more than who shouts the loudest or who cancels dissent the best.

/rant

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#118

Post by bart_spoon »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #88
bart_spoon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time this topic comes up, many of the responses here are about how it is pointless to try and impose limits on social media (or anything for that matter) on children, as they will inevitably circumvent them or something like that. To me it comes off like mental gymnastics to excuse a failure to actually parent.

The same could be said for teen drinking, smoking, casual sex, and drug use. Those who are dead-set on doing it will always find a way, that's the energy of teenage rebellion at work. Whilst I do agree that it's a failure to parent to a large extent, locking things behind restrictions can also make people want it more without them understanding why they're being restricted from having something that clearly makes a l…

No one is suggesting to deprive your kids of social media without explaining the dangers. But I also think its a fallacy that I see all the time when the situation is boiled down to only two options: restrictions with no justification and treating your child like an idiot pet, or explaining why its bad but not actually imposing any restrictions and letting your child choose for themselves like they are an adult (which they aren't). A middle ground exists of treating your child like a growing human being in which you put in place restrictions to protect themselves from themselves, while also explaining the importance and motivation of those restrictions.

> those who are going to take them are probably going to take them anyway

I also think this is a common fallacy. As you said, some individuals are dead set on using drugs, participating in risky sex, teenage drinking, or utilizing social media may circumvent any restrictions you place on them. But there is also a large proportion of the population who isn't "dead set" on using those things, and are only interested enough to use them if convenient, but if otherwise restricted or disincentivized will move on to other things. Its certainly a far more nuanced equation than "People will do whatever they want, regardless".

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#119

Post by ChicagoBoy11 »

CharlesW wrote: post #36
ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #3

I work at a fancy private school and partially am have hosted numerous events for parents on kids and social media. We have been banging on this key for easily the past 8 years, with varying levels of emphasis. The response from parents has also been universally consistent: A lot of nodding, and, ultimately, very little action. There has always been a small but consistent group of parents who stand firmly on their de…

> There has always been a small but consistent group of parents who stand firmly on their decision to delay giving their child broad access to social media until later, and the vast, vast majority who can't be bothered to. For the latter group, do you feel like it's always willful ignorance? For example, some parents think you're talking about TikTok, when (as I'm sure you know) it often starts with Roblox/Minecraft…

I do a thing where I get a chance to meet with lots of smaller group of kids, and I let them ask anything tech anonymously. it is absolutely eye opening, and it becomes very clear that adolescence for a lot of them is much, much harder to navigate because of these tools they've been given. What I do sometimes is just share with parents some of the questions I get from the kids, and that has been the only slightly effective thing I've seen. To me the biggest issue is that there's a lot of "not my kid" sort of sentiment, and I think letting the kids' voices speak through to the parents sometimes helps hit home to them that they may not have a full grasp of what these tools introduce to their child's life, and that yes, their child could also be one of the ones who struggles with it more accutely.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#120

Post by andrei_says_ »

dabluecaboose wrote: post #79
knaik94 wrote: post #69

I think we are on the tail end of a generation that grew up without internet trying to govern generations that did. The single question that helps me decide whether someone is equipped to address the underlying problem, is asking if they understand the differences between good and bad social media. The difference between good and bad social media is based on the target audience and how potential dark patterns impleme…

I quibble with the notion that there is "good" and "bad" social media, at least as you implicitly defined. Facebook was amazing when it first came out because it allowed people to keep in touch easier and share photos with each other. It also is arguably the progenitor of "bad" social media with tallied likes/reactions and algorithmic skinner boxing of posts. Unfortunately, it boils down more to usage than whether or…

We live in an environment of dark patterns and sophisticated engines designed for addiction.

Our attention - and our kids attention is being extracted and resold.

The algorithm-ization of social media feeds to promote addictive behaviors optimized to maximize addiction triggers for the personality of every single individual + the maximization of paid content (sometimes ads, sometimes secretly promoted) has long replaced the feeds serving the interest of the user.

The enshittification of social media is in place and the platforms are basically competing to squeeze the last few remaining drops of our attention, already having collected and monetized most of that resource.

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