Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 548 posts

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#91

Post by JohnFen »

dathinab wrote: post #82
JohnFen wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No more so than it's isolating them by giving them a curfew, telling them they can't hang out in certain places, not giving them a car, etc. That level of "isolation" seems innocuous at worst to me (even though it may seem like the end of the world to the kids).

Then you are either older, lucky or never introspected. I assume lucky for a moment. The problem is less that conversations are more delayed or ad-hoc but more that they can potentially miss out on "group events". And that is where the problem starts. Because they also can't join in on conversations about that event, etc. This means while the rest of the group will frequently have situations where they emotionally bo…

> Then you are either older, lucky or never introspected.

That sounds a lot like when kids say "you just don't understand!" to parents restricting their activities.

The reality is that the parents usually understand fully, but also understand other aspects that the kids don't yet.

> that they can potentially miss out on "group events".

I doubt this is a common or inevitable consequence. First, kids spend a great deal of time in person with their peers at school. Even if something is only planned online, they can still get the details by asking in person. Second, they can use a home computer to do that stuff. A phone isn't mandatory.

> not having a phone also means e.g. not having a camera

If that's important to a particular child, give them a camera. They do still exist.

> it's better to control it in a careful and reasonable way.

I agree. But you can't really do that if they have a smartphone. You can do that if they have to use a computer at home to go online.

I fully understand that kids will consider the lack of a smartphone to be essentially social suicide. They'll feel like it's an existential problem. But it's not. Good parenting often requires parents to do things that kids think are abusive, but are actually necessary to give them the best shot possible at having a good, healthy adult life. One of the main jobs of a parent is to gradually introduce children to reality. Emphasis on "gradually".

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#92

Post by nineplay »

im3w1l wrote: post #90
nineplay wrote: post #86

I have lost patience with articles about kids and teens and "social media" that make no attempt to define what social media is. It is no wonder parents won't seriously - particularly when the follow up advice is "don't give your kids phones" as though it's all or nothing. Could we please get a list of social media kids are using and their relative levels of harm? If it's mostly Instagram then say Instagram and parent…

The reason they don't say is because they don't know.

How can they claim that this is all backed up by research if they don't know what social media is? What is the link they are finding?

It doesn't feel like science. It feels like hand-waving, correlation, and anecdote.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#93

Post by standardUser »

bart_spoon wrote: post #68
KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What reasonable action could be taken on the parent side? I feel like apps should be regulated to for example, only show up to 20 videos max on tiktok per day to prevent doom scrolling. I don't think preventing kids from accessing social media entirely is viable or reasonable.

Children have been around for 7 billion years. Only the last 20 years have children grown up with social media for even part of their childhood. Do you truly believe it has now become that critical to the childhood experience? Especially given avalanche of research demonstrating its harm?

If I didn't watch the Simpsons, play Nintendo and listen to the local alt rock radio station when I was a kid, I would have had very little in common with my peers. Same situation today, just different media. Turns out, shared experiences facilitate bonding. Who knew?

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#94

Post by hammyhavoc »

omginternets wrote: post #78
swader999 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isolating them from their peers can be just as mentally devastating. I don't think there is a good solution to this.

Thankfully, there are other ways of interacting with one's peers, most of which create more meaningful connections than social media. To put it more bluntly: if social media is the only thing standing between a child and total isolation, that child has far bigger problems. Maybe sign your kid up for little league?

Little league? Social media?

Are we talking children or teenagers?

What's frequently missed is that most organization of meet-ups, birthday parties, talking to romantic interests, going to concerts et al, all happens on social media and in group chats now, and has done for the best part of fifteen years in the West. For the prior generation, if you aren't online, you aren't cool, and you won't know about cool things that are happening.

The current generation seems to have a fascination with dumb phones and eschewing tech obsession if the media spin is to be believed versus the numbers on social media apps. Both can be valid things that are occurring though, but I'm willing to bet that the dumb phone movement is a small one or a LARP for elitist cool points.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#95

Post by omginternets »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #94
omginternets wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully, there are other ways of interacting with one's peers, most of which create more meaningful connections than social media. To put it more bluntly: if social media is the only thing standing between a child and total isolation, that child has far bigger problems. Maybe sign your kid up for little league?

Little league? Social media? Are we talking children or teenagers? What's frequently missed is that most organization of meet-ups, birthday parties, talking to romantic interests, going to concerts et al, all happens on social media and in group chats now, and has done for the best part of fifteen years in the West. For the prior generation, if you aren't online, you aren't cool, and you won't know about cool things…

>What's frequently missed is that most organization of meet-ups, birthday parties, talking to romantic interests, going to concerts et al, all happens on social media and in group chats now, and has done for the best part of fifteen years in the West.

Yeah, no. People still talk to each other.

I leave it to you to exercise some adaptability and find suitable workarounds. This is a small problem. I guarantee you that you solve harder ones on a daily basis.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#96

Post by jjulius »

nineplay wrote: post #86

I have lost patience with articles about kids and teens and "social media" that make no attempt to define what social media is. It is no wonder parents won't seriously - particularly when the follow up advice is "don't give your kids phones" as though it's all or nothing. Could we please get a list of social media kids are using and their relative levels of harm? If it's mostly Instagram then say Instagram and parent…

>I have lost patience with articles about kids and teens and "social media" that make no attempt to define what social media is. It is no wonder parents won't seriously - particularly when the follow up advice is "don't give your kids phones" as though it's all or nothing.

This article is about social media, and doesn't suggest an all-or-nothing approach of not giving kids phones. Hell, a ctrl+f for "phone" brings up 0 results.

>Could we please get a list of social media kids are using and their relative levels of harm? If it's mostly Instagram then say Instagram and parents can uninstall that app. Is it Facebook? (I didn't think kids were using Facebook) Is it TikTok? (I'm not sure I'd classify TikTok as social media) Twitter? Reddit? Roblox? Shared google docs? Group texts? Hacker news?

If you go to the NYT article and follow the link to the 19-page report in the first article, you can find this[1] in the second citation. This appears to suggest that, at a minimum, social media includes YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, Twitch, WhatsApp, Reddit, and Tumblr. These are, to my mind, obvious choices, but maybe it's not so obvious to others?

Your comment is the first time I've ever heard anyone mention group texts and shared Google docs being considered "social media", and it's often mentioned and acknowledged on this very forum that HN can be considered social media.

>Do I have to point out that phones have more uses than social media?

No, because contrary to you saying that "saying 'no phones' is throwing the baby out with the bathwater", nobody has actually said that here. A ctrl+f for "phone" in this thread currently brings up 12 results, 9 (well, 10 now that I've edited this sentence in) of which are in my comment and yours, and the other three aren't about banning phones outright, in fact two of them are about taking the more nuanced approach you've suggested.

>It shouldn't be hard to have intelligent, thoughtful discussions on kids and the internet. For some reason, no one ever does.

It's not hard if we're not being so reactionary.

[1]https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2022/08/10/teens-social...

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#97

Post by sghiassy »

nineplay wrote: post #86

I have lost patience with articles about kids and teens and "social media" that make no attempt to define what social media is. It is no wonder parents won't seriously - particularly when the follow up advice is "don't give your kids phones" as though it's all or nothing. Could we please get a list of social media kids are using and their relative levels of harm? If it's mostly Instagram then say Instagram and parent…

Interesting that you wouldn't classify TikTok as social media. How would you characterize it?

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#98

Post by hammyhavoc »

wonderwonder wrote: post #80
swader999 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isolating them from their peers can be just as mentally devastating. I don't think there is a good solution to this.

How are they isolated? If kids are involved in sports and extra curriculars they will have plenty of social interaction. Nothing on social media is good for young minds. Everything is a pitch trying to sell some sort of viewpoint. I'm the parent, I'll provide morals and insight into topics I think are important that aren't or shouldn't be covered in school. I don't need Jim.lottahoes78 teaching my kid anything.

> Everything is a pitch trying to sell some sort of viewpoint.

What about cities? What about stores? What about TV? What about magazines? What about the radio? What about school? What about music? What about books?

Whilst I agree with you, where do we draw the line? Personally, having worked in advertising/marketing for over a decade and grown completely disenchanted with it and pivoted to just doing creative shit, I don't think we should advertise to kids, period. It's exploitative and gross.

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#99

Post by hardware2win »

bluescrn wrote: post #24
hardware2win wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehh Do you believe that you realistically can change grown ass, old adults? They had plenty of time to realize and should have known better. I dont think there is a hope for them. Bet on the youth, they are still malleable

> Bet on the youth, they are still malleable Yes, they're the most vulnerable to online propaganda. Sounds like a good reason to keep them away from social media.

Thats what im saying

Re: Social media can be a ‘profound risk’ to youth, surgeon general warns

#100

Post by hammyhavoc »

youreincorrect wrote: post #23
swader999 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isolating them from their peers can be just as mentally devastating. I don't think there is a good solution to this.

They can deal with it. In middle school, I was called a faggot, relentlessly, for not owning a Jansport backpack . I am 100% serious. They'll find friends, I'm pretty sure of it.

I was called plenty of unpleasant stuff, including that. I didn't find any friends and I left at sixteen because of it. I'm not so sure. At thirty, I'm still fairly socially isolated outside of work.
Post reply on HN