Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#621

Post by sanitycheck » Tue, May 23, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

downut wrote: post #611

sanitycheck wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, same here - I've used the cheapest pans it was possible to buy when I was a student, on the worst ceramic stove it was viable for my university accommodation to provide. For something like this where precise responsive heat control is unnecessary anything is OK. (Making actual caramel, OTOH, that's far easier on gas or induction.)

Lord gawd almighty. Let me tell you a story. If you go off road just about anywhere in Mexico that's dry enough and interesting enough, and it's possible to go slow enough to have enough clearance, you will find cheap 2WD rear drive cars that are already there. I have seen some amazing accomplishments from these vehicles that almost no US driver would dream of taking off road. Still, I wouldn't trade my 23 yo lifted…

Now I can cook some range of dishes reasonably well, but when I was a student long ago I was very much a beginner - and it still worked out alright.

If you happen to already have a big 4WD truck which you need for other things then obviously it makes sense to use that anywhere it might give you an advantage. Sometimes that advantage turns out to be pretty marginal in practical terms but for you, because you're used to to handling the terrain with ease, switching to a crappy 2WD car would feel like a massive downgrade.

Another kitchen analogy, some people spend their whole lives chopping things with a blunt knife. When I offer to help out and realise this state of affairs my first reaction is "how the hell can anyone chop tomatoes with this?!" ... but of course they can, it's just slower and more annoying.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#622

Post by JustSomeNobody » Tue, May 23, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

bruckie wrote: post #110

Recipe writers are still lying about cooking time in 2023. I signed up for a Hello Fresh promo recently to get some new meal ideas, and it's making me feel like the slowest cook on the planet. I reliably exceed their stated prep and cooking times by 100-200%. Tonight's "40 minute" recipe took about 70 minutes, and that was with a family member helping out with some of the prep and cooking. I wonder if they collect an…

I never pay attention to the overall cook times. I read through the recipe and picture myself doing the steps to get a feel for how long it will really take.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#623

Post by ouid » Tue, May 23, 2023, 3:19 PM UTC

jacurtis wrote: post #601

SamBam wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is simply a vague use of the word "caramelize," not that they expect you to be at the stove a half-hour longer than they say. The vast majority of recipes that say "caramelize" simply mean "cook until softened and sweet." No, technically the onions won't be caramelized after 15 minutes, but very few recipes actually want you to caramelize the onions. Take an Italian pasta sauce. As an Italian who has c…

The confusion comes in the color versus the process. I've seen some recipes call for "cook down onions until translucent and caramel in color". This is the most accurate definition of what most recipes want when asking for caramelized onions. However the true use of the word "Caramelized Onions" are onions that have gone through the cooking process of caramelization. This process requires three things: sugar, heat, a…

I feel like you shouldn't call it coq au vin unless you're using the male of the species.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#624

Post by ouid » Tue, May 23, 2023, 3:22 PM UTC

balderdash wrote: post #563

bruckie wrote: post #110

Recipe writers are still lying about cooking time in 2023. I signed up for a Hello Fresh promo recently to get some new meal ideas, and it's making me feel like the slowest cook on the planet. I reliably exceed their stated prep and cooking times by 100-200%. Tonight's "40 minute" recipe took about 70 minutes, and that was with a family member helping out with some of the prep and cooking. I wonder if they collect an…

Don’t disagree that some of the recipe times are very optimistic, but watching friends cook gives me hives at how inefficient they are, handful of things to think about about that will massively speed up your cooking time: 1)read the recipe and spend a couple of min visualizing the steps, what you’ll need and writing out the timing and grouping chores. 2) do some mise en place[a] (buy $50 of small duralex glass bowls…

mise en place is more efficient for restaurant kitchens, where you can get an assembly line rolling, but it is less efficient for home cooking.

Its a lot less stressful, but its clearly slower to not optimize your order of operations.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#625

Post by dkarl » Tue, May 23, 2023, 3:23 PM UTC

balderdash wrote: post #563

bruckie wrote: post #110

Recipe writers are still lying about cooking time in 2023. I signed up for a Hello Fresh promo recently to get some new meal ideas, and it's making me feel like the slowest cook on the planet. I reliably exceed their stated prep and cooking times by 100-200%. Tonight's "40 minute" recipe took about 70 minutes, and that was with a family member helping out with some of the prep and cooking. I wonder if they collect an…

Don’t disagree that some of the recipe times are very optimistic, but watching friends cook gives me hives at how inefficient they are, handful of things to think about about that will massively speed up your cooking time: 1)read the recipe and spend a couple of min visualizing the steps, what you’ll need and writing out the timing and grouping chores. 2) do some mise en place[a] (buy $50 of small duralex glass bowls…

Each one of these things is worth adopting by itself, if adopting all of them at the same time is intimidating.

Item 5 can be interpreted in more than one way, though, so I think it's worth digging into. At a fundamental level, with virtually no tradeoffs, it's important not to be crowded by dirty dishes while you cook. If you're worried about your elbow bumping a water glass while you chop onions, or if you have to reach around a dirty mixing bowl to find the garlic, it's going to slow you down, both physically and mentally. Keeping your workspace tidy pays back every second many times over.

Taking "clean while you cook" even further, you can try to save time by scrubbing pans and bowls as you are finished with them. This is extremely appealing for busy people, but how feasible it is depends on what you're making, how much work and attention it requires, and how fast you are. It's a rare triumph for me if I can put three dishes on the table with no dirty dishes in the kitchen. I've done this, but much more often, I've messed up dishes when my attention got hijacked by scrubbing a pan that I could have left for later. If you feel rushed or stressed while cooking, you can give yourself breathing room by getting the dirty stuff out of the way in the easiest possible manner, even if that means stacking it to clean it later.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#626

Post by fknorangesite » Tue, May 23, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

Falkon1313 wrote: post #458

crtified wrote: post #31

After looking at the recipes in question, I suspect that some of these writers are merely using the term Caramelized in a loose, informal (or, if you prefer, "technically-incorrect") sense. When what they more-precisely meant is lightly softened, translucent - a state of onionhood used in no shortage of recipes as an intermediary step during the cooking process. The writers are therefore perhaps guilty of casual synt…

I'm just sad that they spoil perfectly good fresh, juicy, crunchy onions. They call it 'caramelized' but don't even put any caramel in. Which is probably good because actual caramelized onions would be gross too. But why not just be honest and call them burnt onions? Or "onions with all the flavor and texture removed"? Personally, I find those recipes quick enough because I simply opt not to ruin the onions. They don…

[flagged]

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#627

Post by fknorangesite » Tue, May 23, 2023, 3:30 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #588

SamBam wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is simply a vague use of the word "caramelize," not that they expect you to be at the stove a half-hour longer than they say. The vast majority of recipes that say "caramelize" simply mean "cook until softened and sweet." No, technically the onions won't be caramelized after 15 minutes, but very few recipes actually want you to caramelize the onions. Take an Italian pasta sauce. As an Italian who has c…

Exactly. I'm no cook, I'm barely an amateur cook, and I have absolutely no idea what "caramelized onions" means. Turned into caramel? I'm pretty sure you can get onions brown in 10 minutes, though. It probably won't be caramelized, it might be burned, but it's brown. I remember brown, dry onions. I'm sure caramelized ones are better. In fact, I think my wife once did something with onions that made them very sweet. I…

> I think a book like that would be really helpful to a lot of people.

It's called The Joy of Cooking.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#628

Post by renewiltord » Tue, May 23, 2023, 3:31 PM UTC

sanitycheck wrote: post #421

I've had this conversation with people many times, a consequence is that some of them have no idea what caramelised onions actually are - they think it's the state you get to after 10 mins. Thinly slice 10 onions, dump them in a big pot with some oil on a medium heat for 10-15 minutes stirring frequently. Then turn the heat down to low and cook for a further 45-60 mins, check on it and stir every 10 mins or so. When…

Interesting. ChatGPT says that it takes 30 min to 1 hr. Looks like human recipe writers hallucinate at a much higher rate.

For what it's worth, though, many of the examples don't say "caramelize". They say "brown" and "golden brown". Both of which you can reach fast.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#629

Post by sbrother » Tue, May 23, 2023, 3:34 PM UTC

fknorangesite wrote: post #627

mcv wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I'm no cook, I'm barely an amateur cook, and I have absolutely no idea what "caramelized onions" means. Turned into caramel? I'm pretty sure you can get onions brown in 10 minutes, though. It probably won't be caramelized, it might be burned, but it's brown. I remember brown, dry onions. I'm sure caramelized ones are better. In fact, I think my wife once did something with onions that made them very sweet. I…

> I think a book like that would be really helpful to a lot of people. It's called The Joy of Cooking.

How to Cook Everything would be a more modern alternative that's just as good IMO.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#630

Post by dekhn » Tue, May 23, 2023, 3:35 PM UTC

I agree with the folks saying that caramelized is poorly defined in popular cooking. What I think most recipes really mean is "sweat the onions until soft". What many people end up with is "dried-out onions that are burnt in spots". While caramelize is definitely a slow process that has several phases.

I think the real point is- there's a lot of stuff where people are stirring things in a pan on a stove. Try the toaster oven- it's much more set-and-forget, has better heat control, and if you're lucky, it has a fan that recirculates the air, which greatly improves the results.

Properly caramelized onions are more like fruit jam than anything else.