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A mental health crisis in science

nature.com

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Re: A mental health crisis in science

#11

Post by salawat »

abhayhegde wrote: post #6
_fat_santa wrote: post #3

It seems like this is a symptom of a larger problem, rates of anxiety and depression have been going up in recent years in pretty much every facet. I always hear that social media is to blame, but I wonder if that is really the case? I feel like something else is going on, maybe it's just a totality of smaller issues rather than one big problem.

I definitely think social media has a large share in driving down the mental health of the majority of users. No two lives are comparable, yet it induces people to compare their lives to someone else's often resulting in an unreasonable amount of envy, jealousy, and a general dissatisfaction of their lives. People pick their best moments while sharing, but it's never the true picture. It sets unrealistic expectations…

So what are you blaming exactly?

The fact that social media has us all connected and capable of measuring relative to others?

Or the fact it's weaponized by an entire industry of "influencers" subsidized by actors just trying to maximize the consumption factor of economic activity?

Or the fact that the system is fundamentally governed by network effect induced power laws, leading to massive inequality, that can end up being a stressor on average?

Just trying to tease out the right thread here, is all.

Something that lets us all communicate isn't inherently bad. It's the end that it is applied to that is.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#12

Post by nvahalik »

_fat_santa wrote: post #3

It seems like this is a symptom of a larger problem, rates of anxiety and depression have been going up in recent years in pretty much every facet. I always hear that social media is to blame, but I wonder if that is really the case? I feel like something else is going on, maybe it's just a totality of smaller issues rather than one big problem.

[flagged]

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#13

Post by oaiey »

What I found interesting of this article is that most of it is also applicable to a many tech sector jobs. High pressure to deliver something (because we squeeze the last of people), hire-and-fire practices everywhere, politics and toxic environments (because that is what people do and what is the current social perspective on what is okay).

Developers, like scientists, are very outcome driven (number of lines, number of features, RoI, ...)

The only - very big difference - is pay.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#14

Post by PragmaticPulp »

_fat_santa wrote: post #3

It seems like this is a symptom of a larger problem, rates of anxiety and depression have been going up in recent years in pretty much every facet. I always hear that social media is to blame, but I wonder if that is really the case? I feel like something else is going on, maybe it's just a totality of smaller issues rather than one big problem.

I’ve worked with groups of juniors and college students every year for a while now. I agree that something is going on, but I don’t think there is a single explanation.

Social media is a big part of it, but from what I’ve seen it’s not in the way people usually describe it. The most unhappy people I see aren’t the ones talking to their friends on Instagram and Facebook during their lunch break. To be honest, those people seem to be thriving socially simply by virtue of keeping up with their friends and coordinating social activities.

The most unhappy people I see are the ones consuming hours of Reddit and Twitter every day. They have a never ending stream of ragebait, outrage headlines, tragedy stories, and world-is-ending stories filling their feeds. They’re also filled with unreasonable expectations about the workplace.

In recent years multiple juniors have confidently told me that “nobody can do more than about 2 hours of work per day”, citing Reddit or Twitter threads that explain it. Then they get into a real job that requires a full day of work and feel like they’re being taken advantage of. I’ve had a concerning number of conversations with juniors who are getting paid $120K or more to do entry level work with great mentoring at a local company, only to be outraged at some idea that the industry is taking advantage of them because they haven’t been promoted to senior with $300K total comp after their first year. The source of these expectations is always some form of social media (Reddit, Blind, Twitter)

I don’t know how this translates to academic contexts because that’s not my mentoring domain. I imagine it’s at least contributing, though. That said, academic environments are known to be grueling so it’s not entirely a singular issue. They really are grueling.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#15

Post by Lutger »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #2

Have been in research 20 years, and cultures vary dramatically by group. Scientists also seem to be more anxiety prone than the general population. Also, it doesn't help if you take your work too seriously.

I'm sorry to say it and you probably mean well, but your response sounds like the very kind of victim blaming that perpetuates and reinforces the abusive culture the article is talking about.

Instead of the victims or the culture, I'd rather look at the systemic issues that scientific institutions struggle with: debt, lack of social mobility, being underpaid and overworked, etc.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#16

Post by readthenotes1 »

nvahalik wrote: post #12
_fat_santa wrote: post #3

It seems like this is a symptom of a larger problem, rates of anxiety and depression have been going up in recent years in pretty much every facet. I always hear that social media is to blame, but I wonder if that is really the case? I feel like something else is going on, maybe it's just a totality of smaller issues rather than one big problem.

[flagged]

Starting with the boomers, children have been raised to think they are the most important people in the household.

No wonder, 3 generations later, grown children are a bit self-focused.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#17

Post by huijzer »

_fat_santa wrote: post #3

It seems like this is a symptom of a larger problem, rates of anxiety and depression have been going up in recent years in pretty much every facet. I always hear that social media is to blame, but I wonder if that is really the case? I feel like something else is going on, maybe it's just a totality of smaller issues rather than one big problem.

According to Tim Urban’s latest book "What’s our problem?", modern Western society also has other problems such as an increase in groupthink, which is for example visible in the aggressiveness of current US politics.

Overall, it’s difficult to have much hope for the future. We’re in a new cold war where collaboration decreases rapidly between the West and, I guess, East. That’s wildly different than 2008 when China and Russia appeared to warm up to the West and taking some more democratic stances.

What does excite me is the continued improvements in hardware and software. Let’s hope those things will continue improvements in entertainment, medicine, travel, and education.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#18

Post by fullshark »

oaiey wrote: post #13

What I found interesting of this article is that most of it is also applicable to a many tech sector jobs. High pressure to deliver something (because we squeeze the last of people), hire-and-fire practices everywhere, politics and toxic environments (because that is what people do and what is the current social perspective on what is okay). Developers, like scientists, are very outcome driven (number of lines, numbe…

It's what you get when you put intelligent, ambitious and arguably insecure people in a high pressure environment with status/economic rewards and punishments. Also yes you are judged based on output not how cordial you are in the workplace or whatever. Sales I guess would also qualify.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#19

Post by PaulHoule »

oaiey wrote: post #13

What I found interesting of this article is that most of it is also applicable to a many tech sector jobs. High pressure to deliver something (because we squeeze the last of people), hire-and-fire practices everywhere, politics and toxic environments (because that is what people do and what is the current social perspective on what is okay). Developers, like scientists, are very outcome driven (number of lines, numbe…

Tech job hunts are easy in good times. (e.g. leave one employer, take a day off, interview at another employer the day after that, start working the week after)

Academic jobs are nothing like that.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#20

Post by cornercasechase »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #14
_fat_santa wrote: post #3

It seems like this is a symptom of a larger problem, rates of anxiety and depression have been going up in recent years in pretty much every facet. I always hear that social media is to blame, but I wonder if that is really the case? I feel like something else is going on, maybe it's just a totality of smaller issues rather than one big problem.

I’ve worked with groups of juniors and college students every year for a while now. I agree that something is going on, but I don’t think there is a single explanation. Social media is a big part of it, but from what I’ve seen it’s not in the way people usually describe it. The most unhappy people I see aren’t the ones talking to their friends on Instagram and Facebook during their lunch break. To be honest, those pe…

I think being angry is a natural and healthy response to the current economic reality. The juniors you’re working with have it right. If the CEO is going to make 100X as much as me, I’m going to do my best to work 100X less than they do. Hopefully we’ve reached a timeline where we no longer acquiesce to rampant inequality.
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