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Ask HN: Why are we more and more talking about the past here on HN?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are we more and more talking about the past here on HN?

#51
My honest opinion is that encrappification (of the world in general, and software and computer culture in particular) has some part in it.

While A.I has exciting properties, there's not very much really interesting stuff going on.. Mostly new libraries, written on top of older libraries to abstract some abstraction into something even blander..

When was the last time a new kind of hardware device was introduced ? I don't mean some iteration of an old one, but a new one ?

Like, when we switched from working off of floppy drives to hard-drives, that really _changed_ something.. When we started attaching modems to our computers and went out into the world.. When the voodoo chips came and we started having dedicated pci cards just for drawing 3d graphics!

There is a bit going on with VR headsets, but they're not showing the same kind of promise anymore..

Software is becoming scarce.. We sit with the most powerful general purpose computers in the history of mankind in front of us, and we use them to view "web apps" crawl forth with abhorrent efficiency compared to the wares of yesteryear.

So, maybe some of the nostalgia is not so much because we want to look back, but rather because looking forward is frankly a rather bleak sight.

Re: Ask HN: Why are we more and more talking about the past here on HN?

#52
post #24

Its likely a combination of many factors. i) The demographics of the user base. Maybe "Young Hacker News" happens inside discord or whatever. ii) The fact that the past keeps growing . The body of interesting developments keeps growing and while some stuff is obsolete / nostalgic, other stuff is totally not. In fact revisiting the mindset and vision of past decades is many times very inspiring and educational. iii) T…

(i) Do anyone knows where that would be, or you know specific Discord servers? I would very much like to see how younger generation talk about tech, programming, entrepreneurship

Here are a few STEM focused ones I'm in. Note, that much of the content (due to the younger age demographic) is people asking for homework help and such a lot of the time. Funny enough, that has died down now with the advent of ChatGPT. Equally, I've met many field experts who hang out in these groups too and people I've eventually become friends and colleagues with:

Furlough (Great Startup Community): https://discord.gg/furlough

Science and Math Association: https://discord.gg/Yqf9GGjV

Mathematics: https://discord.gg/zZ94XYkt37

Control Engineering: https://discord.gg/mPwkRJKG

DIY Tech: https://discord.gg/diytech

Computer Vision: https://discord.gg/4BXczxNJwK

Adafruit: https://discord.gg/adafruit

Better C++: https://discord.gg/e3aXc2xUWr

Python: https://discord.gg/python

Unity Discord: https://discord.gg/unity

The Programmers Hangout: https://discord.gg/programming

The Coding Den: https://discord.gg/code

Game Dev Network: https://discord.gg/gdn

Developer-Ecosystem: https://discord.gg/deveco

OpenAI: https://discord.gg/openai

Makers HQ: https://discord.gg/QWtd5Z6N

Re: Ask HN: Why are we more and more talking about the past here on HN?

#53
It's hard to know if that's really true. I've been here years (not under this account) and can't say I noticed any obvious trend towards talking about the past more.

Still, speculating is irresistible so here's my 2c. It's because tech is relatively stagnant at the moment.

i. A lot of traditional "hacker" stuff is about how computers work/are designed, but innovation there has largely stopped. If you look at the newest operating systems (Android, iOS, ChromeOS, Fuschia), they're all extremely same-y. The web meanwhile is kind of more grown or discovered than designed. To the extent these platforms do things different from 90s era operating systems, they're trying to make things less hackable and powerful in order to increase robustness and simplicity. Three come from a single company (or four if you count the web), and reflect the mindset/culture of that company. So people who hanker for the hacker spirit look backwards to an era when how computers worked was still up for grabs and was at least some interesting competition of ideas.

ii. PL theory is likewise kinda stagnant. HN gets excited about Rust partly because it's the only new language for a while that has new ideas in it. Go, Swift, Kotlin etc - all nice langs but very much of a muchness and avoid new ideas (maybe Swift gets some credit for trying stuff with strings). Compare this to the days when C, Lisp, Objective-C, Haskell, Perl were duking it out. All very different paradigms and approaches. People who get absurdly passionate about PLs are kind of an anachronism these days but were once common because there used to be more at stake.

iii. Hardware: also stagnant outside of mobile. This is mostly the fault of Microsoft and Linux vendors IMHO. The mobile industry has shown that it's perfectly capable of doing cool stuff with hardware over the past 10 years, with folding screens being one of the latest gizmos we get to play with, but how much of that stuff made it to the professional workstation-class machines we actually use daily? Almost none! Even hiDPI screens are a trainwreck. The problem here is firmly in the software camp. Microsoft checked out mentally years ago, Linux is hostile to HW vendors doing new things because drivers are such a PITA to ship out of the box, and PC/hardware vendors can't do anything meaningful with Windows other than try to optimize cost. So the landscape consists of Apple porting HW upgrades from their mobile R&D, and that's about it.

iv. Web ideology has been fading with time and Google's dominance. HTML was never going to win any design awards but for years many hacker types were extremely loyal to it, perceiving it as an open system unowned by any particular company. Nowadays the loyalty is less, for various reasons. It's now OK to criticize it, it's not taboo anymore. People can look back on what it displaced and compare more rationally, hence the semi-common "Delphi was cool" type comments. This is a healthy pushback against the often irrational collective progressivism of the first decade of the 2000s, in which every "open" platform was cool, brilliant and the future, and everything privately owned was dangerous hot garbage. Sometimes I personally feel the pendulum has swung too far, like with the people who celebrate the inability to install non-Store apps on iOS, but there's no question that the pendulum has swung.

Re: Ask HN: Why are we more and more talking about the past here on HN?

#54

Its likely a combination of many factors. i) The demographics of the user base. Maybe "Young Hacker News" happens inside discord or whatever. ii) The fact that the past keeps growing . The body of interesting developments keeps growing and while some stuff is obsolete / nostalgic, other stuff is totally not. In fact revisiting the mindset and vision of past decades is many times very inspiring and educational. iii) T…

I am old but would talk in discord if it had a better search and if it saved archives online so I can find past convos. It’s painful how much really good conversations and tech info gets lost when someone deletes a channel.

I think we’re partially returning to the ephemeral era of human communication. Discords, slacks, decentralized app channels, and self hosted forums all cease to exist quite easily. The semi-permanence of the web may be remembered as a brief era destroyed by spam and toxic social trends.

Re: Ask HN: Why are we more and more talking about the past here on HN?

#55

The older you get, the more you realize that all the shiny new stuff, and exciting news, and ways the world is changing...they are really not all that new. Pretty-similar stuff happened decades, centuries, and millennia ago. And getting worked up about all the "new and exciting!" is an outlook best suited to being a simple consumer of entertainment. Vs. if you're no longer a kid, in a world that has some rather dire…

Nothing like generative AI has ever happened. This is new, which is part of why it’s so exciting.

No I don’t think these things are going to become sentient (in their present form at least) but no technology has ever been able to do what these models do.

Re: Ask HN: Why are we more and more talking about the past here on HN?

#57
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All the latest Culture Wars, malice, scams, cancellations, filter bubbles, misinformation madness etc would not be possible without the Internet. The latest , sure, by definition. But nah, people were plenty good at getting worked up much earlier than the internet.

Search for “satanic panic” for a TV era example.

Go back. Search for "yellow journalism".

Re: Ask HN: Why are we more and more talking about the past here on HN?

#58
post #16

Back in the day, we'd never talk so much about the past.

I suspect that was sarcasm, but I think it's true. We were too busy talking about the new stuff in the present, and what we were trying to build for the future. It's a real shift - not total, but it's there.

Re: Ask HN: Why are we more and more talking about the past here on HN?

#60
There was a time, not long ago, when new products were built on new ideas, and the marketplaces were very, very heterogeneous.

Now, the marketplaces are largely commoditized and new products are incremental improvements and extensions of previous ones. The old ideas and products are still there, fascinating history to be explored.

An example - on a new Linux system, look at the man page for "termcap", and you will find configuration data for the Teletype model 33 and the Lear Siegler ADM-3. That makes people like me go "Hmm!" in a fascinated tone of voice.

History is like dead reckoning navigation. We only understand where we are by knowing where we were and what was done to get from there to here, and there are those of us very interested in such things.

This is only a partial answer to your question.

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