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Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

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Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#401

Post by the_only_law »

digging wrote: post #322
the_only_law wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My entry to the field was a bit odd. I’ve been a hobbyist since I was a kid, but I never wanted to enter the files professionally, at least not the way I did. I knew I wouldn’t like it. But my immediate post high school plans fell through I spent a year working crappy jobs until I eventually figured “you know I bet I could get a job as a software developer if I tried”. It surely would do a lot better for paying the b…

Why is your stint over now?

I stopped caring about industry trends and hype years ago. I was able to get away with it by coasting on what I did know for years, but otherwise I’ve been very narrow (not really true, but in the context of the job market it is). Funny enough this was somewhat on purpose as I was planning to leave anyway, but I thought I had a couple more years than I did.

On top of that, the jobs I still see seem want want increasingly obscure specializations I don’t have. I haven’t had a job for over half a year, and there doesn’t seem to be any sign of that changing. The recruiters dried up a while back and I’ve only had sparse interviews, which have been some of the most antagonistic I’ve ever had.

It’s not any particular “type” of company either. Both the tech profit center companies and the tech cost center companies don’t want me.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#402

Post by tharkun__ »

vjk800 wrote: post #361
threadweaver34 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Late 30's no kids, no stresses beyond the threat layoffs and still being single. I recently tried playing some video games adjacent to ones I've loved before, and I found it really hard to get into them. The games are Red Dead Redemption and SimCity 4, so the graphics and gameplay mechanics are ok. It's just been hard to really get into them.

The same for me. I still sometimes find games that I can really get into, but it's much harder than it was 10-20 years ago. I think part of that is because I've played so many games that many new games just feel like the same old again and again. The other reason is, of course, that the general inability to concentrate hard on stuff makes it so much more difficult to immerse myself into the game world. Some exception…

Same here. There is one game though that for some reason I've replayed over and over through the years.

I played the original way back of course. Probably once. Settlers 2.

I had to look it up but apparently the "Settlers 2: 10th anniversary edition" came out in 2006. I don't even remember the original graphics and I'm so used to the 10th anniversary edition look. But once every year or two I delete my profile and play the campaign again over a week or two. It's the only game I've come back to again and again so often. Even with kids in the mix.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#403

Post by arvinsim »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #275
arvinsim wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me, on the other hand, long to be an architect so that I can influence some technical decisions. Grass is always greener.

You hope you can influence some technical decisions, but it's not just a title of architect that gives you authority, you need convincing and communication skills as well.

I think that's the best I can do if I want to stay in the engineering track.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#404

Post by vlovich123 »

yurishimo wrote: post #264
vlovich123 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most modern development is gluing components together and wrangling packages. It's so far removed from the machine and the distance is only growing. That’s actually what I love most about things today. Hard components I might want to use probably already have a ready to made library I can start with. Time from inception to prototype to production is so short that it really removes a lot of the tedium. I wish it cou…

Same for me as well. I don't want to talk to hardware because the ideas I have in my head are so removed from that problem space. I want to build tools to help normal people do stuff or create automation. I fully understand and appreciate that to make all of that work, the low level stuff also needs to be fast and functional, but I'm not the person to make that optimization. I really enjoy being a web developer despi…

To be clear, I want to be able to program hardware too. I’m talking about end to end system design. Building databases and operating systems that work drastically different from today. It’s really hard (and insanely expensive) for one person to realize a vision of a wide ranging new way of doing things.

NPM is fine but too many people add what should be 20 straightforward copy-pasted lines as an external dependency (lodash being an extreme example).

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#405

Post by vlovich123 »

randcraw wrote: post #341
yurishimo wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for me as well. I don't want to talk to hardware because the ideas I have in my head are so removed from that problem space. I want to build tools to help normal people do stuff or create automation. I fully understand and appreciate that to make all of that work, the low level stuff also needs to be fast and functional, but I'm not the person to make that optimization. I really enjoy being a web developer despi…

But does the cut-and-paste model of coding scale to 30+ years of developing code? I don't know of any problem domain that's so deep and compelling that I could stay engrossed in solving high-level tasks for that long. Either I have to change domains (as I have maybe 4 times in my 37 years), or vary my routine by occasionally diving into the nitty gritty of low-level code and O/S services. Being a _user_ of code doesn…

The world I want is where I can build an entire computer by myself from HW synthesis to SW by just telling an AI high level description of how I want the software to be written. Having to domain shift my entire focus is horribly annoying.

When I say cut and paste I mean “import cutting edge compressor” or “import cutting edge probabilistic filter” as building blocks of building a new piece of software.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#406

Post by presentation »

pmoriarty wrote: post #250
asdfman123 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those kinds of managers may not be coders but assuming they are actually good at managing (and know their limitations), they play an important role. It’s important to respect that other people are bringing different things to the table. Everyone’s got different strengths and weaknesses.

> Those kinds of managers may not be coders but assuming they are actually good at managing (and know their limitations), they play an important role. What role is that?

Scenario 1: Bad Manager

- manager tells engineer to do something but doesn’t fully understand the context

- the engineer doesn’t fully understand it either but thinks they do, jumps to the conclusion that what’s needed is something complex, and thinks “no problem I’m 1337 and I got this”

- engineer spends the next three months crafting the Mona Lisa of code

- feature gets shipped and users… just don’t care about it since it didn’t actually solve their issues

- three months wasted from the perspective of the business, opportunities missed

- next time the engineer wants to do something technically great, the higher ups smack the plan down and tell them to get in line

- engineer quits in frustration

- company weakens

Scenario 2: better manager

- manager aligns with leadership to understand the end goals

- then works with product and engineers to figure out the best way to achieve that goal. Turns out some of it is minor product changes but most of it maybe is just clearer messaging, education, etc

- then ensures the engineers tasked to implement it are fully aligned on what they’re building and know who to go to for reference, so that there is no ambiguity from what the higher ups want vs what the engineers think they’re supposed to do

- this simpler idea is implemented in a week and released

- users love it

- the team gets more resources from higher up because of a track record of doing useful things

- engineer feels greatly productive and vital to the team

- this is 10x better than scenario 1 outcome and it’s mostly thanks to a good manager doing their job

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#407

Post by hnfong »

digging wrote: post #318
visarga wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have known programmers who don't know how a float is represented in memory. I just can't comprehend how they can gloss over basics like that.

Guilty. I'm pretty good at my job, but I never learned CS fundamentals and don't work in a context where this matters (I currently work in front-end JS/TS). I don't think it's worthless knowledge to me, but I think you're a bit blinded by your own context. I have seen many comments on HN bemoaning "Developers who don't even know X", and X is always something different. I don't think there's a smoking gun for bad deve…

I generally agree, in other languages it suffices to just tell juniors "don't use floating point if you can avoid it". And integer types are less messy to reason with (just need to learn the 32-bit and 64-bit ranges).

But in your specific case (of JS/TS), _all_ the normal numeric variables are in IEEE 754 floating point...

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#408

Post by yurishimo »

randcraw wrote: post #341
yurishimo wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for me as well. I don't want to talk to hardware because the ideas I have in my head are so removed from that problem space. I want to build tools to help normal people do stuff or create automation. I fully understand and appreciate that to make all of that work, the low level stuff also needs to be fast and functional, but I'm not the person to make that optimization. I really enjoy being a web developer despi…

But does the cut-and-paste model of coding scale to 30+ years of developing code? I don't know of any problem domain that's so deep and compelling that I could stay engrossed in solving high-level tasks for that long. Either I have to change domains (as I have maybe 4 times in my 37 years), or vary my routine by occasionally diving into the nitty gritty of low-level code and O/S services. Being a _user_ of code doesn…

> I can't imagine cutting and pasting my way through that world, nor would I ever want to.

Personally, I don't do that but I do work with a few people who don't really see a problem with that workflow. I agree with you that it is ultimately flawed since you aren't really learning anything except how to put things together. But we both know what happens when you reach the limit of this workflow, as evidenced by no/low-code tools.

I much prefer to write my own business logic and interface with tools that let me express requirements succinctly and cover the most common pitfalls. If/when those tools are no longer good enough, I have an opportunity to write something tailor made to the problem space that meets the current performance or design needs.

Right now my favorite stack is Laravel, Vue, and Tailwind. Other than Vue, I have very few JS dependencies and I like it that way!

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#409

Post by hugatest »

dolmen wrote: post #213

25 years of professional programming, but not at Apple. Far away from being able to retire (4 kids, latest fresh from last year) :(

Yeah, same here. In a sense I'm looking forward to retirement. And in a sense I dread it, since once that day has come it would mean that I'm old and the last third of my life has firmly started already a few years ago and nothing will turn this back.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#410

Post by hugatest »

bookofjoe wrote: post #262
vjk800 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to love the long periods of focus in my 20s, but ever since more life started happening, I can't do those anymore. It turns out my stress tolerance is incredibly low and when the life outside my work is not completely in order (like it rarely is after the 20s), being able to get into the flow state gets very difficult. I wish I was one of those people who could just forget the problems at home, etc. when they…

On flow: back when I started my blog (2004) I soon realized that nothing had ever turned on the "flow switch" as predictably as preparing and publishing posts: for 4-6 hours/day, 5-6 days/week, I was in heaven. Reading the comments on vjk800's comment led me to focus on my state of mind today (I'll be 75 on June 8) as I work on my blog in its nineteenth year. Though I spend perhaps 2-3 hours/day 3-5 days/week on it n…

I checked out the blog and noticed the book "Quantations".

> How does the theoretical world of quantum physics create our everyday life? "Quantations" explains this with wit and clarity, making the imaginary real.

I also took a peek into the book. I'm sorry to sound negative, but this is just full of fluff that has nothing to do with actual quantum physics. It's all pseudo-philosophical fluff and that stuff is the reason my aunt thinks she is a "medium" and communicates within some kind of "sixth dimension". Sorry to say, but this is all BS.

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