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Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

seattletimes.com

61–70 of 310 posts

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#61
post #2

If these workers could get remote jobs, they would- but they can’t. Amazon knows this, and probably can’t wait for them to quit. For now all they can do is complain about having to go to an office to be a spoiled, overpaid tech worker. If I had that job I would be keeping my mouth shut and enjoying the paycheck, but to each their own I suppose.

Most of them sadly can not get even a non remote job easily. Most of big tech, and Amazon specially, massively lowered their hiring floor to hire more over the years, and are full of extremely incompetent people who will find it hard to survive elsewhere. Orgs are more like fiefdoms and full of incompetent people. A lot of such incompetent people know they are incompetent and go to massive lengths to survive (getting…

> Most of big tech, and Amazon specially, massively lowered their hiring floor to hire more over the years, and are full of extremely incompetent people

If that's true, it'd add insult to injury, for the people who were interested in the better FAANGs... but got turned off by the stack of months' worth of prep materials that FAANG in-house recruiters would send to candidates, for their kabuki theatre of interview processes.

One of my recent theories about the interview processes promoted by FAANGs is that they (by accident or design) tend to neuter students against becoming upstart competitors. Think of all those students in school who could have time for side projects, considering startups, developing skills that woudl be useful in startups... and instead FAANGs have trained students to conceive of the very skills as passing the FAANG interview rituals, and to spend their spare time practicing for those rituals. Not only are those students less likely to start a startup, but startups that happen still have to find the workers who are amenable to thinking like creative engineers, and working as a team focused on a shared goal, despite all the FAANG-like messaging to young developers that has infected CS departments and broader industry.

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#62
Cue the analogies of how forcing coders back into the office (in one of the first places where you could bring your dog to work) is worse than working in a salmon cannery in 1926. I weep for those that must endure these atrocious working conditions, I heard they're running low on sparkling water in the kitchenettes.

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#63
post #3
post #2

If these workers could get remote jobs, they would- but they can’t. Amazon knows this, and probably can’t wait for them to quit. For now all they can do is complain about having to go to an office to be a spoiled, overpaid tech worker. If I had that job I would be keeping my mouth shut and enjoying the paycheck, but to each their own I suppose.

Amazon has a small window to force the drones back to the office. Once people start having options we're done. WFH will be here to stay.

After they force people back to office then what? It’s not like they won’t leave if they manage to get remote job elsewhere.

Frankly, I don’t get this drive to RTO. The only gain is face to face meetings might improve productivity (in some people). The downside is increased pollution due to commuting - even with EVs you are wearing out tires increase the amount of micro plastics in the environment, wearing out their batteries, and wasting electricity.

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#64

I'm always surprised to see this much desire to work from home all the time. The way I see it. Given a few years, every work from home job will be outsource to some country where the pay is less. Companies are all about cutting costs. If a job can be done at home then it can be done from anywhere in the world. Why not hire the least expensive workforce?

Communication across cultures is a huge problem even when the language is the same, let alone when it’s not. Also being in the same time zone is a big advantage for remote collaboration.

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many people that stand to lose if a fully remote work force came to pass. Building management, HR, middle managers, property investors, they're the ones you're hearing I'd guess. Pure software dev jobs are very easy to do remotely, it's not like we spend all day talking to people any way.

Software developers lose due to increased competition. Instead of competing with just silicon valley you are competing with the entire world.

But you also gain access to more employers

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#66
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of them sadly can not get even a non remote job easily. Most of big tech, and Amazon specially, massively lowered their hiring floor to hire more over the years, and are full of extremely incompetent people who will find it hard to survive elsewhere. Orgs are more like fiefdoms and full of incompetent people. A lot of such incompetent people know they are incompetent and go to massive lengths to survive (getting…

> Most of big tech, and Amazon specially, massively lowered their hiring floor to hire more over the years, and are full of extremely incompetent people If that's true, it'd add insult to injury, for the people who were interested in the better FAANGs... but got turned off by the stack of months' worth of prep materials that FAANG in-house recruiters would send to candidates, for their kabuki theatre of interview pro…

The interview process, despite all it's shortcomings, was a good filter. It has been massively neutered in the recent years and is gamed every which way now by the hiring team's leadership, which is the one of the main reasons responsible for massive dilution in median talent.

The interview process is flawed, but it did prevent totally incompetent candidates. Now instead of being replaced with an alternative which measures something else, it has just been watered down.

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#67

Wow, the pro-corp tone in some of the comments is surprising. Software jobs are one of the few remaining ones where we still hold the means of production -- and can withhold them to our leverage. These folks are walking out for the right reasons -- big f-off to RTO, and even if a bit late, the layoffs.

> Software jobs are one of the few remaining ones where we still hold the means of production Typical software jobs absolutely do not "hold the means of production". The aforementioned "means of production" likely includes years of work from an entire sales team in order to land paying customers in the first place. What good are the "means of production" when no one is buying your product? Cool, you built a useful pi…

What are the software sales people going to sell if there are no software developers to build their product?

In a way you're both right - software developers (usually) don't create/design/sell the entire product end-to-end, but they no doubt are a critical piece of the process. That gives them leverage.

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many people that stand to lose if a fully remote work force came to pass. Building management, HR, middle managers, property investors, they're the ones you're hearing I'd guess. Pure software dev jobs are very easy to do remotely, it's not like we spend all day talking to people any way.

Software developers lose due to increased competition. Instead of competing with just silicon valley you are competing with the entire world.

Maybe. But language, culture, practices, and time zones can really throw cold water on that.

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#69

I'm always surprised to see this much desire to work from home all the time. The way I see it. Given a few years, every work from home job will be outsource to some country where the pay is less. Companies are all about cutting costs. If a job can be done at home then it can be done from anywhere in the world. Why not hire the least expensive workforce?

Lots of companies have learned the hard way that cheaper engineers aren’t always better, or watched others learn it. And great engineers aren’t necessarily willing to work for last decade’s local wages.

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#70

Wow, the pro-corp tone in some of the comments is surprising. Software jobs are one of the few remaining ones where we still hold the means of production -- and can withhold them to our leverage. These folks are walking out for the right reasons -- big f-off to RTO, and even if a bit late, the layoffs.

Walking out to protest multiple rounds of layoffs may not be the power move you imagine.
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