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Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

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Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#51

Post by wussboy »

kstenerud wrote: post #4

The best way to carmelize onions is in a slow cooker. I used a cheapie one for years that I bought at a goodwill for $5. Chop up enough onions to fill the vessel 1/2 to 2/3, leave it running overnight (8-10h), wake up next morning to perfectly carmelized onions. Now drain the juice, portion them out and store them in the freezer (store the juice too for onion soup). Now any time you need carmelized onions, take a por…

I would wake up with a ravenous hunger as the smell would have permeated the house! What a delightful problem to have!

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#52

Post by wussboy »

harshalizee wrote: post #49
sfink wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect this is correct. I find softened onions preferably for a number of uses. Caramelized onions can be too sweet, and soggy/limp. I've even found that leaving a trace of crunch is better in many cases (eg beef bolognese). But don't listen to me, I've never really figured out the difference between cooked yellow, white, and sweet onions, and just buy whatever is available and has the least mold and soft spots. E…

The best way to learn the importance of using the right onion is by making french onion soup with red onions. You'll quickly realize that it belongs straight in the trash.

Do you have a recipe to recommend?

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#53

Post by sfink »

yamtaddle wrote: post #27

Recipe writers routinely lie about how long a recipe takes, too. Most reporting a time requirement much under 30 minutes get there by ignoring how long it takes to process & prep the various ingredients. "15-minute meals" often take 10-15 minutes of prep before you can start them.

Yes. My favorite is quickie salad recipes. Their times are correct, as long as you happen to have a refrigerator stuffed with containers of chopped vegetables for some reason.

I've seen youtube videos where they "make" such salads. It's really not far off from "cooking time: 10 minutes. 3 to pick from the menu, 2 to call for delivery, 5 for it to reach you."

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#54

Post by GarlicToum »

In the modern age, SEO is partially to blame for inaccurate recipe cook times. At some point Google realized that folks would click on more recipes with shorter times, as people would use that as a metric when cooking. So they would promote quicker recipes.

What ended up happening is some recipe developers would try and actually reduce the amount of time their recipe took, and others would just "shorten" prep (or even cook) time down, to try and get the most clicks. I know Kenji talks about it in one of his POV videos, but I couldn't find it in a cursory search.

Since there isn't really a reliable way to know how long recipes would take for _you_ across different sites, it's almost not a useful metric, but it is what's been optimized for.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#55

Post by underratedbug »

crtified wrote: post #31

After looking at the recipes in question, I suspect that some of these writers are merely using the term Caramelized in a loose, informal (or, if you prefer, "technically-incorrect") sense. When what they more-precisely meant is lightly softened, translucent - a state of onionhood used in no shortage of recipes as an intermediary step during the cooking process. The writers are therefore perhaps guilty of casual synt…

This is so clearly true I wonder if the author intentionally “misunderstood” the situation so they could rant. Bonus points for commenters years later making the same “mistake”.

No, they don’t really mean caramelization. No, no one else cares.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#56

Post by yamtaddle »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #43
yamtaddle wrote: post #27

Recipe writers routinely lie about how long a recipe takes, too. Most reporting a time requirement much under 30 minutes get there by ignoring how long it takes to process & prep the various ingredients. "15-minute meals" often take 10-15 minutes of prep before you can start them.

The entire recipe-industrial-complex is optimised primarily for convenience. Even a majority of the supposedly reputable cookbook authors are obsessed with “quick and easy” recipes. If you actually want to learn cooking a cuisine, most of the content you find via google or top selling cookbooks is going to be useless and filled with shortcuts and overly simplified ingredients lists. If you’re looking at a recipe that…

> Another one is if it’s a foreign dish and you can somehow find all of the ingredients in your local supermarket.

Fun one I noticed: if you search for Hungarian (as in, written in Hungarian) recipes for paprikash, you'll get one dish[1]; if you search for it in English, practically every result would best be classified as some other dish—maybe also good, but not really the same thing.

The key difference seemed to be that the writers of the English recipes were terrified of the amount of sour cream you need to make the real thing. It's a lot. I mean, I'm not Hungarian, but judging from what ~every Hungarian recipe I found said, the correct amount is at least 4x the sour cream per serving of what the English-language recipes suggested. Depending on the recipes one paired up from each language, some were more like 20x.

[1] "What's 'paprikash' in Hungarian, though?" that's what the Wikipedia "other languages" links are for! Find your recipe or ingredient or whatever there, then hit the dish's native language in the language bar. It doesn't even need to be in a script you can read. Works for just about any dish popular enough to have an English-language Wikipedia entry. More reliable (for this specific thing) than Google Translate.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#57

Post by AmericanChopper »

yamtaddle wrote: post #56
AmericanChopper wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire recipe-industrial-complex is optimised primarily for convenience. Even a majority of the supposedly reputable cookbook authors are obsessed with “quick and easy” recipes. If you actually want to learn cooking a cuisine, most of the content you find via google or top selling cookbooks is going to be useless and filled with shortcuts and overly simplified ingredients lists. If you’re looking at a recipe that…

> Another one is if it’s a foreign dish and you can somehow find all of the ingredients in your local supermarket. Fun one I noticed: if you search for Hungarian (as in, written in Hungarian) recipes for paprikash, you'll get one dish[1]; if you search for it in English, practically every result would best be classified as some other dish—maybe also good, but not really the same thing. The key difference seemed to be…

Using the original source language can certainly help. But even then most of the blog recipes you find are going to have the same problem with being very simplified.

A problem with Google Translate specifically is that it’s often not great at translating ingredients. For instance it will translate daun salam as bay leaf, but there’s something like 6 different types of bay leaf, and they’re not at all similar. If a recipe calls for daun salam it probably wants you to use Indonesian bay leaf, but if you didn’t already know that distinction you’d end up with something weird. Another example would be bawang putih, which translates literally to white onion, but means garlic. Google translate has learnt this meaning sometime recently, but it used to give the literal incorrect translation.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#58

Post by dopidopHN »

chongli wrote: post #39

The trick to caramelizing onions (without leaving them overnight in a slow cooker) is to add a bunch of water to the pan and steam them until they’re completely wilted, then boil off the water and add oil. This will cause most of the onion cells to burst, releasing their water, allowing that water to quickly evaporate so that the oil can do its job raising the temperature of all the onions to the point at which the s…

I did it for a living over a summer. Helper for a Syrian restorant in France.

My instruction : - long filament of oignons, all the same size

- large amount of olive oil

- when it start browning, start moving them. Stop when they are caramélisés.

- dump

- smoke a cig.

- repeat

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#59

Post by steve_adams_86 »

millimeterman wrote: post #48
mc32 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right but that flour would have to be out (unsealed) for a while. Boy, weevils!

That strikes me as a fairly modern thing. I imagine that weevils and/or rocks in flour was a common issue just a few generations ago (or, in many countries, to this day).

It can also remove clumps that can form in wetter climates, or from flour of lower quality. During the pandemic I got a big ol bag of flour that was loaded with clumps, and I had to gradually sift all 50lb of it. So, I guess it can still be totally useful in modern times if you have bad purchasing and storage options.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#60

Post by richk449 »

Recipes are terrible when it comes to time. I have this one open in a tab so I can try it soon:

https://www.seriouseats.com/lamb-biryani

The first step is the prep step, which it says takes 5 minutes. In that step, I have to:

- trim the fat from, and cube (1in) 2 pounds of lamb

- peel and chop 6 cloves of garlic

- peel and grate 2 inches of ginger

- mix with yogurt and salt in a zip lock bag

That looks like at least 20 minutes of work to me. Include cleanup (raw meat and garlic are both a pain), and it is easily a half hour of work.

Maybe 5 minutes is for an expert chef in a professional kitchen?

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