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Severance payments at Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: Severance payments at Wikimedia Foundation

#301

Post by t8sr »

noobermin wrote: post #298
t8sr wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, Wikimedia has about 250-300 employees and what they pay their CEO is about what Facebook and Google pay a senior SWE. They seem to run pretty lean to me. Firing everyone and moving to a cheap country doesn't seem feasible, and they already are apparently moving a lot of their hiring to Germany. I don't really see what's outrageous here? > Obviously it's become a gravy train . Oh come on - their CEO manages 25…

To be honest, this more highlights how far out of step tech salaries are with...well everyone else.

A bus driver in San Francisco makes about 80k on average, ranging up to about 150k AFAIK. The higher end is more than a senior engineer makes at Wikimedia in California.

It maybe highlights that salaries in the US are higher than in much of the rest of the world, but I don't think that's Wikimedia's fault.

Re: Severance payments at Wikimedia Foundation

#302

Post by patrec »

tptacek wrote: post #232
andersrs wrote: post #14

Just take a look at this graph. The salaries have been bloating whilst hosting expenses are flat and plummeting as a proportion of all expenses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation#/media/Fi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation#/media/Fi... Net assets are sitting at ~$240M about 10x what they were a decade ago. Yet they roll out a sob-story banner on every page insinuating that they mi…

Just don't donate to them. My feelings about Wikipedia come pretty close to reverence, and I've never even considered sending them money. They'll be fine no matter what. By all means, advocate against donating to them! They don't need the money. Unless someone here really thinks it's important for Wikipedia to pull in 9 figures in grants and donations, I'm not sure there's as much to argue about here as it seems. Org…

Telling yourself that no matter how many parasitic grifters the surplus gazillions attract, wikipedia will be "fine" won't make it so.

Re: Severance payments at Wikimedia Foundation

#303

Post by akolbe »

t8sr wrote: post #301
noobermin wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, this more highlights how far out of step tech salaries are with...well everyone else.

A bus driver in San Francisco makes about 80k on average, ranging up to about 150k AFAIK. The higher end is more than a senior engineer makes at Wikimedia in California. It maybe highlights that salaries in the US are higher than in much of the rest of the world, but I don't think that's Wikimedia's fault.

Relatively few Wikimedia staff are in San Francisco. Nearly half are outside the United States:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_...

As for the other side of the equation, revenue, most of that is from readers' donations. And most of that comes from North America, Europe, Australia and East Asia.

But the Foundation also shows its fundraising messages and sends its fundraising emails begging readers to chip in in places like India, Brazil and South Africa:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising/2021-22_Report

Re: Severance payments at Wikimedia Foundation

#304

Post by ethbr0 »

sp332 wrote: post #283
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m going to be honest I’ve gone to some of the more controversial articles they don’t seem far off from reality a lot of the time. They usually have citations of both pro and anti arguments on both sides of any debate. Is there something I’m missing?

Yes, the Talk and History pages on those articles.

People can play fact Monopoly behind the scenes as much as they want -- there's a reason Talk isn't displayed without clicking on it.

Re: Severance payments at Wikimedia Foundation

#305

Post by standardUser »

II2II wrote: post #65
jackvalentine wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the complete opposite read of the situation to you. I have no beef with people getting treated well by any kind of organisation.

For nearly half of households, the severance for the CEO represents over 10 years of income. Households, not people. A great many of those people would have never received severance pay of any amount. Of those who do, they would be fortunate to receive months of severance pay based upon earnings that are a fraction of what a CEO earns. Is it any surprised that some people would be upset? Factor in that the Wikipedia…

This is some hardcore, nuclear-powered cherry picking. Economic inequality in the US is vast and though this one small example sounds pretty bad, it's trivial by comparison to the larger trends.

Re: Severance payments at Wikimedia Foundation

#306

Post by ethbr0 »

t8sr wrote: post #296
costco wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2016 Wikimedia Foundation Budget: $69,136,758 2022 Wikimedia Foundation Budget: $145,970,915 I love Wikipedia but I don't see how this cost explosion can evenly be remotely justified. What value have they added in that time? A new editor and CSS on articles?

Their costs went up about 100%. The cumulative inflation over those 6 years was about 25%. The US averages 6% salary growth yearly, which over six years is about 42%, and would have been much higher in the tech industry. California averages a cost of living increase of about 8% annually, over six years that's 58%. So if you adjust for the rising costs of doing anything in tech, their operating budget has increased by…

It's unfortunate that aiming for 90/00s quality is that much harder nowadays.

Re: Severance payments at Wikimedia Foundation

#307

Post by t8sr »

akolbe wrote: post #303
t8sr wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bus driver in San Francisco makes about 80k on average, ranging up to about 150k AFAIK. The higher end is more than a senior engineer makes at Wikimedia in California. It maybe highlights that salaries in the US are higher than in much of the rest of the world, but I don't think that's Wikimedia's fault.

Relatively few Wikimedia staff are in San Francisco. Nearly half are outside the United States: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_... As for the other side of the equation, revenue, most of that is from readers' donations. And most of that comes from North America, Europe, Australia and East Asia. But the Foundation also shows its fundraising messages and sends its fundraising emails begging…

And in those markets I'm sure they're paid less. The most recent salary report at levels.fyi is about 120k in LA, which is as expensive as SF. They're paying in California less than Spotify is paying in Germany.

And I'm not sure what you're saying - should they only ask for donations in the US? I mean, they could, probably, but why is it a problem that people in poorer countries also donate, proportionally I assume much less?

Re: Severance payments at Wikimedia Foundation

#308

Post by philippejara »

airstrike wrote: post #268
xpe wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting points to consider — thanks. To clarify: endorsing the status quo is a political position. Not saying something is not identical to that. It of course can have probabilistic implications. In other words, silence doesn’t necessarily mean an entity (a person or org) is content with the status quo. It can be a strategic decision.

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." ― Desmond Tutu

Random quotes add nothing to the conversation and won't convince anyone that didn't already agree with what it says.

Re: Severance payments at Wikimedia Foundation

#309

Post by xpe »

airstrike wrote: post #268
xpe wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting points to consider — thanks. To clarify: endorsing the status quo is a political position. Not saying something is not identical to that. It of course can have probabilistic implications. In other words, silence doesn’t necessarily mean an entity (a person or org) is content with the status quo. It can be a strategic decision.

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." ― Desmond Tutu

A good quote. I also like:

“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." - Martin Luther King Jr.

"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men." - Abraham Lincoln

"There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest." - Elie Wiesel

“Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance." - Robert F. Kennedy

Generally: For almost every piece of advice there are useful contrasts. More than useful, actually: necessary. Ideas that seem reasonable (even wise) in isolation often don’t ‘survive contact’ with broader thinking. In other words, an isolated idea may not prove applicable for a particular context.

Here are more quotes that can help weigh your choice to speak:

"Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy." - Howard W. Newton (not Isaac Newton)

“What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Specifically: The early and outspoken critics sometimes get their heads cut off. Sometimes this galvanizes change. Sometimes this just helps the decapitator find his enemies more efficiently. Sometimes it is wiser — and more ethical — to quietly (even secretly) organize and act when you have a critical mass.

“The nail that sticks out gets hammered down." - Japanese Proverb

“A single arrow is easily broken, but not ten in a bundle." - Japanese Proverb

Re: Severance payments at Wikimedia Foundation

#310

Post by tptacek »

patrec wrote: post #302
tptacek wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don't donate to them. My feelings about Wikipedia come pretty close to reverence, and I've never even considered sending them money. They'll be fine no matter what. By all means, advocate against donating to them! They don't need the money. Unless someone here really thinks it's important for Wikipedia to pull in 9 figures in grants and donations, I'm not sure there's as much to argue about here as it seems. Org…

Telling yourself that no matter how many parasitic grifters the surplus gazillions attract, wikipedia will be "fine" won't make it so.

Saying it won't make it so, true. And yet, it is so.
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