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Meta AI announces Massive Multilingual Speech code, models for 1000+ languages

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Re: Meta AI announces Massive Multilingual Speech code, models for 1000+ languages

#101
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is too surprised by the fact that OpenAI went closed. As ironic as it may be, it was pretty obviously the only way they were going to continue to exist. On the other hand, it definitely underscores: - How blatantly companies exploit the "open source" concept with no remorse or even tacit acknowledgement; for many startups, open source is a great way to buy some goodwill and get some customers, th…

Because OSS doesn't work at scale, the economic incentives are not aligned. Sure, it may work sometimes with the goodwill of someone who cares, but 90% of OSS code is a dead portfolio the authors built with the hope of landing a tech job or skipping some algorithm questions. Sure, OSS allow people to experiment with crap for free (even though it's mostly big corps benefiting from OSS) but what about the negative effe…

In the long term, software is not very novel. Needs evolve quickly in the genesis of a new category of software, but it doesn't take very long for it to stabilize for many categories. That's why, in my estimation anyways, open source is actually more sustainable in some cases: because when software becomes a commodity, it makes more sense for stakeholders to collaborate and collectively benefit from it.

There is no "OSS dream" anymore—today, there is an OSS reality. We have some open source stuff that objectively works: there are business models that are more or less proven, at least as proven as any internet or software-oriented business model, and plenty of highly successful projects that deliver immense value to the world.

Then again, some of it doesn't seem to work, and there are a lot of unknowns about how it works, what the dynamics will be, etc. But, if we're to call open source into question, we shouldn't forget to call proprietary software into question, too. Proprietary software has many seemingly-endemic issues that are hard to mitigate, and the business model has been shifting as of late. Software is now sold more as a subscription and a service than it is a product. The old business model of boxed software, it seems, has proven unsustainable for many participants.

The main issue open source seems to have is really funding. It works well when open source software acts as a compliment to some other commercial business, but it works poorly when the software itself is where all the value is. After all, if you, for example, just host an open source piece of software in exchange for money, you're effectively competing in the highly competitive web hosting business. It can work since you can obviously provide some value, but it's a precarious position. Thus very few companies really have a lot of money to put into the Linux desktop, or at least if you wanted to compare it to Windows or macOS. It's complimentary to some of them who use it as a developer workstation or something, but there are only a couple companies who I think genuinely have a good model. System76 is definitely one of them, to be explicit about it.

But rather than give up entirely, I propose something else: we should literally fund open source collectively. Obviously a lot of us already do: you can donate to projects like Blender or Krita monetarily, and you can donate your time and code as I'm sure many of us also do for random projects. But also, I think that open source should get (more) public funding. These projects arguably end up adding more value to the world than you put in them, and I think governments should take notice.

Of course in some cases this has already taken shape for one reason or another. Consider Ghidra. Clearly released for the benefit of NSA's PR, but wait, why not release Ghidra? It's immensely useful, especially given that even at a fraction of the functionality of Hex Rays products, it's still extremely useful for many parties who could simply never afford the annual cost of maintaining IDA Pro licenses, especially now that it is only available as a subscription.

The way I see it, software and computers in general are still moving quite fast even though it's clearly stagnating compared to where it once was. But, as things stabilize, software will simply need to be updated less, because we simply aren't going to have reasons to. As it is, old versions of Photoshop are already perfectly serviceable for many jobs. And at that point, we're only going to need one decent open source release for some given category of work. Things will need occasional improvements and updates, but c'mon, there's not an unlimited amount of potential to squeeze out of e.g. an image editor, any more than you can a table saw or a hammer. At some point you hit the point of diminishing returns, and I think we're nearing it in some places, hence why the switch to subscription models is necessary to sustain software businesses.

It's a myth that open source is held up by poor developers starving for their ideology. I'm sure a lot of that exists, but a lot of open source is also side projects, work subsidized by companies for one reason or another, projects with healthy revenue streams or donations, etc.

Re: Meta AI announces Massive Multilingual Speech code, models for 1000+ languages

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hope that glue is better then the duct tapes google use on translate.g.c it is still hopeless, and much worse than the dictionary based, at gender/nums/dicleasions in general. i sometimes use it just to not thing about the grammar in some languages, and most times I'm doing a surprised double take of something that would be completely inappropriate or offensive instead of my simple phrases.

Google Translate is still inferior to ChatGPT 3.5. I suspect this style of model is significantly more expensive to run and Google doesn't want to give it away for free. Really, the only problem with ChatGPT is that it refuses to translate things that go against its nanny programming, which can make it almost worse than useless in some real-life situations.

I tried ChatGPT 3.5 against Google Translate, translating English to Greek, my native language, and they perform almost the same. The text was difficult text of science fiction, fantasy stuff and the results were tolerable. Roughly 50% of the text had to be manually rewritten.

Maybe for more casual sentences and not so difficult text, they perform better, i haven't tried. Anyways, they are both better than nothing.

Re: Meta AI announces Massive Multilingual Speech code, models for 1000+ languages

#104
post #77
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My annoyance was managing state. I’d have to spend hours installing tools, downloading data, updating code, then when I want to go to bed I have to package it up and store as much as I can on s3 before shutting off the $$ server.

This is what containers solve. Don't waste time manually installing things. Store state in a database via the app on a different host.

Yep... you spend hours messing around with docker containers and debugging all the weird build errors.

I am less familiar with storing data in a db (for ml hosting concerns), but I'd imagine it would add overhead (as opposed to accessing files on disk).

You also have to deal with hosting a db and configuring the schema.

Re: Meta AI announces Massive Multilingual Speech code, models for 1000+ languages

#105
I just wanted to test out the TTS locally on a powerful Ubuntu 22.04 machine, but the process for setting it up seems pretty broken and poorly documented. After 20 minutes of trying I finally gave up since I couldn't get the VITS dependency to build (despite having a fully updated machine with all required compilers). It seems like they never really bother to see if the stuff works on a fresh machine starting from scratch. Somehow for my own projects I'm always able to start from a fresh git clone and then directly install everything using this block of code:

``` python3 -m venv venv source venv/bin/activate python3 -m pip install --upgrade pip python3 -m pip install wheel pip install -r requirements.txt ```

But whenever I try using these complicated ML models, it's usually an exercise in futility and endless mucking around with conda and other nonsense. It ends up not being worth it and I just move on. But it does feel like it doesn't need to be like this.

Re: Meta AI announces Massive Multilingual Speech code, models for 1000+ languages

#106
post #91
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait why is renting a GPU in the cloud not a solution? You can even try multiple options and see which ones are capable enough for your use case. Look into some barebones cloud GPU services, for example Lambda Labs which is significantly cheaper than AWS/GCP but offers basically nothing besides the machine with a GPU. You could even try something like Vast in which people rent out their personal GPU machines for chea…

Besides some great tooling out there if you wanted to roll your own, you can literally rent windows/linux computers, with persistent disks. If you have good internet, you can even use it as a gaming PC, as I do.

Is there an easy way to off-board the persistent disk to cheaper machines when you don't need the gpus?

Like imagine, setting up and installing everything with the gpu attached, but when you're not using the gpu or all the cpu cores, you can disconnect them.

If you have docs on how to do this, please let me know.

Re: Meta AI announces Massive Multilingual Speech code, models for 1000+ languages

#107
post #40

I was kind of hoping for Interlingue, but was surprised to not even see Esperanto on the list.

Random thought ; could Esperanto (as a crypto-language) be turned into any sort of programming language. Could one, conceivably program in Esperanto in any meaningful way?

There's nothing particularly special about Esperanto in that regard compared to natural languages that it is modelled after.

Re: Meta AI announces Massive Multilingual Speech code, models for 1000+ languages

#108

I just wanted to test out the TTS locally on a powerful Ubuntu 22.04 machine, but the process for setting it up seems pretty broken and poorly documented. After 20 minutes of trying I finally gave up since I couldn't get the VITS dependency to build (despite having a fully updated machine with all required compilers). It seems like they never really bother to see if the stuff works on a fresh machine starting from sc…

Yeah, a lot of the releases from researcg groups are woefully poorly documented.

Usually, some hero releases a friendly install system within a few days, though.

Re: Meta AI announces Massive Multilingual Speech code, models for 1000+ languages

#109
post #104
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what containers solve. Don't waste time manually installing things. Store state in a database via the app on a different host.

Yep... you spend hours messing around with docker containers and debugging all the weird build errors. I am less familiar with storing data in a db (for ml hosting concerns), but I'd imagine it would add overhead (as opposed to accessing files on disk). You also have to deal with hosting a db and configuring the schema.

You "spend hours messing around" with everything you don't know or understand at first. One could say the same about writing the software itself. At its core Dockerfiles are just shell scripts with worse syntax, so it's not really that much more to learn. Once you get it done once, you don't have to screw around with it anymore, and you have it on any box you want in seconds.

In either case you have to spend hours screwing around with your environment. If those hours result in a Dockerfile, then it's the last time. If they don't, then it's each time you want it on a new host (which as was correctly pointed out a pain in the ass).

Storing data in a database vs in files on disk is like application development 101 and is pretty much a required skill period. It's required that you learn how to do this because almost all applications revolve around storing some kind of state and, as was noted, you can't reasonably expect it to persist on the app server without additional ops headaches.

Many people will host dbs for you without you having to think about it. Schema is only required if you use a structured db (which is advisable) but it doesn't take that long.

Re: Meta AI announces Massive Multilingual Speech code, models for 1000+ languages

#110
post #76
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait why is renting a GPU in the cloud not a solution? You can even try multiple options and see which ones are capable enough for your use case. Look into some barebones cloud GPU services, for example Lambda Labs which is significantly cheaper than AWS/GCP but offers basically nothing besides the machine with a GPU. You could even try something like Vast in which people rent out their personal GPU machines for chea…

My annoyance was managing state. I’d have to spend hours installing tools, downloading data, updating code, then when I want to go to bed I have to package it up and store as much as I can on s3 before shutting off the $$ server.

I've played a lot with Stable Diffusion using AWS spot instances, mostly because it is the platform with which I'm more familiar. The Terraform script[0] should be easy to adapt to any other project of this kind.

Let me know if you are interested, and maybe we can find time to work on it together :).

[0] https://github.com/ciberado/stable-diffusion-webui-terraform...

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