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Hoarding

michaelsamsel.com

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Re: Hoarding

#51

Post by MisterBastahrd »

There's a part here that people seem to miss about hoarders.

Horders live powerless lives. It's rare that you seen an insanely wealthy person who built their own business who hoards things. Usually, hoarders have had either an emotional abuse component growing up or emotional trauma as an adult.

What's money equal? Power. Hoarders with a few dollars in their pocket will seek out that next high that they get from purchasing an item that they MIGHT use some day. From the time they put that item in their cart until the time that they make the purchase, THEY are in control of the decision making process. It might be the only time they ever feel in control of their own lives, as the mounds of stuff close them in and hamper their movement.

I see hoarding as sort of a sister to people who have issues with overeating, especially those who were conditioned to "clean your plate." The compulsion to eat until past full because you've got a food opportunity that you must not squander is probably a decent part of the reason that we have as many overweight people as we do. It's not enough to sit, have a nice dinner and some conversation, and let the food settle while you eat, discarding a bit if you get full. For some families, you are expected to consume every speck of food lest it go to waste. This ends with people feeling that they are satiated only when they are stuffed because they have been conditioned to behave in that manner.

Re: Hoarding

#52

Post by dragonwriter »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #51

There's a part here that people seem to miss about hoarders. Horders live powerless lives. It's rare that you seen an insanely wealthy person who built their own business who hoards things. Usually, hoarders have had either an emotional abuse component growing up or emotional trauma as an adult. What's money equal? Power. Hoarders with a few dollars in their pocket will seek out that next high that they get from purc…

> It's rare that you seen an insanely wealthy person who built their own business who hoards things.

Well, insanely wealthy people are a miniscule share of the population, whether or not they’ve built there own business to get that way, so, yes, its rare to see someone in the overlap of those sets.

And rich people can hoard a lot more before it becomes problematic, or even noticeable.

Re: Hoarding

#53

Post by kashunstva »

phaedrus wrote: post #13

I grew up in two hoarder houses (parents and grandparents). I disagree with many of the things said in this article. First of all the thing about hoarding being triggered by loss: I think this has more to do with psychoanalysts looking for an explanatory reason of that sort. (I.e. Freudian bullshit.) From my observation it is more of a genetic personality trait that the person has already had the inclination to hoard…

> Here's the key: it's an inability to make decisions.

That’s a very helpful insight; and to take it further I would just note that pathologic doubt, or intolerance of uncertainty is a cardinal feature of obsessive-compulsive disorder. No idea whether it relates to the family members in your story or even to most hoarders, but in some OCD patients, like me, it takes the form of an extreme inability to decide because of a need to completely dispel doubt by seeking more information. But of course there’s no amount of information that will ultimately triumph over doubt for those so afflicted. I wonder why all OCD/uncertainty-intolerant people don’t become hoarders. Maybe there’s a countervailing aesthetic, ordering drive.

Re: Hoarding

#54

Post by ricardo_nh »

phaedrus wrote: post #13

I grew up in two hoarder houses (parents and grandparents). I disagree with many of the things said in this article. First of all the thing about hoarding being triggered by loss: I think this has more to do with psychoanalysts looking for an explanatory reason of that sort. (I.e. Freudian bullshit.) From my observation it is more of a genetic personality trait that the person has already had the inclination to hoard…

I'm sorry but Freudian's universalist approach is as bullsh*t as a genetic explanation for hoarding. I agree that to make the universal claim that all hoarding is a reaction to a loss is wrong if we are talking about specific losses. But I think you are taking the concept of loss too narrowly. The idea that hoarding is a compensation for a loss is in the more general sense, as if collecting things would be a way to fill in a lack, to fill a void, that otherwise it would be too much to be dealt with. that can be a physical loss (like someone having their home taken away from them) or a more symbolic/abstract loss (someone having abusive parents that buy their children's love with toys). Every case has its own particularities, but the idea of loss in psychoanalysis is not just a mere loss of an object, but also the feeling of absence of something that was never there.

Re: Hoarding

#55

Post by yamrzou »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #16
phaedrus wrote: post #13

I grew up in two hoarder houses (parents and grandparents). I disagree with many of the things said in this article. First of all the thing about hoarding being triggered by loss: I think this has more to do with psychoanalysts looking for an explanatory reason of that sort. (I.e. Freudian bullshit.) From my observation it is more of a genetic personality trait that the person has already had the inclination to hoard…

>it's an inability to make decisions. That's it. I would say it's an inability to execute the 'correct' decision society has imposed on them. Hoarders can make decisions just as well as anyone. Their unique problem occurs when it's apparent to everyone but the hoarder that it's time to discard an item. It's always something that has almost zero vale, but never none. The hoarder distorts reality, and imagines a world…

> The hoarder distorts reality, and imagines a world where the item holds some non-zero value in the remote future.

Nicely put. It is fascinating how often the brain can create a reality of its own, and how its perceptual and predictive machinery can be prone to "bugs".

Re: Hoarding

#56

Post by hommelix »

magicalhippo wrote: post #47
tempestn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a tendency to hoard, but I do find it useful when I'm considering whether to keep a thing, to consider whether I can easily buy an equivalent or better thing on Amazon or eBay and have it at my house within a couple of days for a minimal cost. If so, then the question isn't whether the thing will someday potentially be needed, but whether I'm willing to potentially pay $X if and when that happens, in exc…

This is a strategy I'm trying to adopt as well. For a lot of things though the answer is that it's not easy to get a replacement easily and cheaply (no Amazon in Norway), which makes the decision tough. Another strategy I'm trying to adopt is one my brother-in-law lives by, which is to focus on one "thing" at a time. Like he recently wanted to get an RC race car. So he sold his previous "thing" and bought an RC car s…

I tried this strategy as well, but I've been disappointed when business update their portfolio. Typical example keeping a couple of door knob in case the old model is not available in future, so that all innrr doors in the house have the same knob.

Re: Hoarding

#57

Post by perilunar »

bombcar wrote: post #29
javchz wrote: post #9

I think should be a balance. I went full digital Marie Kondo a few years back, and I regret it. I'm into a lot of niche media, like covers or small indie band scenes. And at the beginning having everything in Spotify or YouTube seems nice... Until there is a rights issue or something worse (like an artist being doxed) and the song it's deleted and became lost media. Now I backup everything in a 2x2TB HDD just in case…

There's a real value to digital hoarding, because external forces are operating against you, and it will all crumble to dust. It's also nice that you can digitally hoard billions of megabytes in the space of a small shoebox.

This. I can't see any downside to digital hoarding. A couple of hard drives is not going to turn your house into a dump. They are very easy to search. It imposes very little on your relatives after you die. And as you say, things frequently disappear online. If you want to always have access to something it's worthwhile keeping your own unencrypted copy.

Re: Hoarding

#58

Post by ta988 »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #21
phaedrus wrote: post #13

I grew up in two hoarder houses (parents and grandparents). I disagree with many of the things said in this article. First of all the thing about hoarding being triggered by loss: I think this has more to do with psychoanalysts looking for an explanatory reason of that sort. (I.e. Freudian bullshit.) From my observation it is more of a genetic personality trait that the person has already had the inclination to hoard…

> Here's the key: it's an inability to make decisions. I think this is spot on. I definitely have hoarder tendencies. A look at my office would easily confirm this. I also tend to hoard code - I'll often comment out old code that no longer applies just in case it might be needed later, or in case I'll need to remember how I did something before. This gets pointed out in code reviews.

You can always go back in your version control history.

Re: Hoarding

#59

Post by throwaway173738 »

tempestn wrote: post #46
magicalhippo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's an inability to make decisions I think your polyurethane example mirrors what I see with my mom, and to some degree in myself, and it's something different. It's a fear that you're throwing away something useful. It's not that me or my mom is unable to decide, it's just that we don't want to throw it away because perhaps one day it might be useful (to us or someone else), so we decide to keep it. I'm trying to…

I don't have a tendency to hoard, but I do find it useful when I'm considering whether to keep a thing, to consider whether I can easily buy an equivalent or better thing on Amazon or eBay and have it at my house within a couple of days for a minimal cost. If so, then the question isn't whether the thing will someday potentially be needed, but whether I'm willing to potentially pay $X if and when that happens, in exc…

This is one of the tacks I have to take with my partner sometimes because she will hold on to stuff she thinks she can’t get again. She’s getting better at getting rid of stuff we don’t need.

Re: Hoarding

#60

Post by onlypositive »

phaedrus wrote: post #13

I grew up in two hoarder houses (parents and grandparents). I disagree with many of the things said in this article. First of all the thing about hoarding being triggered by loss: I think this has more to do with psychoanalysts looking for an explanatory reason of that sort. (I.e. Freudian bullshit.) From my observation it is more of a genetic personality trait that the person has already had the inclination to hoard…

I would totally be a hoarder if it were not for the fact the local government gives us 6 cube metres of "free" curb side bulk rubbish pick up each year. If you don't use them, you lose them.

Obviously I'm paying for these through council tax rates so I make a point of using them up.

These give me a chance to, and crucially, force me to make decisions about junk to get rid of.

Another part of the hoarder condition is that often stuff you board does actually become useful again, I'm regularly coming across things in the house that need fixing or batteries replaced and a quick look around the workshop or in the dedicated junk draws and I can usually find the thing I need. This reinforces the habit.

But back to my point, can I suggest you supply your mom with a rubbish pick up a few times a year, rent a trailer or skip and drop it off to be filled for taking to the dump.

The time based urgency should help make some decisions.

I also wouldn't have let her wait to look that up, I would have looked it up on the spot. Putting things off is a good way to lose the war.

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