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Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

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Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been programming professionally for over 25 years. I have not written a line of code for “fun” since I graduated from college.

But did you have fun while being payed to write those lines? I hope so.

It’s not fun or not fun. It’s a necessity like going to the bathroom.

It’s the easiest method I have to support my addiction to food and shelter.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#252
post #224

In 2 days time I'll mark my 27th year as a professional programmer (and just over 40 years since I started programming). I've worked in small companies, big companies, and mega-corporations. I've been a programmer, manager, team lead and CTO. And in doing so I discovered that I don't like managing people, I don't like meetings, and I don't like paperwork. I like long periods of focus. So I'm a software dev/architect…

I used to love the long periods of focus in my 20s, but ever since more life started happening, I can't do those anymore. It turns out my stress tolerance is incredibly low and when the life outside my work is not completely in order (like it rarely is after the 20s), being able to get into the flow state gets very difficult. I wish I was one of those people who could just forget the problems at home, etc. when they…

I feel like I’m somewhere in this comment. For me, the stress and worry about things going on in my life eventually led to full burnout. Those periods of flow were what kept me going, and when I could no longer find them, it only compounded the stress.

I ended up going on a self-funded sabbatical to focus on sorting out my personal and internal life, and the #1 change that has led to rediscovering deep focus was starting a mindfulness meditation and yoga habit each morning. These core habits led to changes in how I was relating to the worries and created space for me to sort through the underlying stressors.

YMMV, but I realized that some of the things I was worrying about were just consuming energy (despite being legit concerns), and I started actively reframing worries using some of the exercises in the book “Learned Optimism” (Martin Seligman, 2006). This book also made me realize how deeply hardwired my pessimistic defaults were, and these defaults were the source of a lot of my daily rumination and worry.

All of this to say, if you are at all similar to me, it might be worth considering the lack of ability to find flow a big red flag worth actively investigating. I don’t know if I could’ve avoided burnout, but I’m sufficiently convinced now that internal work is one of the most important (and accessible) ways of addressing this.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been programming professionally for over 25 years. I have not written a line of code for “fun” since I graduated from college.

But did you have fun while being payed to write those lines? I hope so.

Not OP, but not really. I do not hate it, but enjoyment is not something I get out of coding. It has gotten better over the years, as I have become a better programmer. Liking what you are good at is natural, after all.

Still, I failed to find a career where what I enjoy is tied to what I am getting paid for. I am pretty sure that is the case for most people around the world. Life can be good regardless (and is for me), but actually enjoying what you are doing professionally, that is a cheat code for living well.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#254

In 2 days time I'll mark my 27th year as a professional programmer (and just over 40 years since I started programming). I've worked in small companies, big companies, and mega-corporations. I've been a programmer, manager, team lead and CTO. And in doing so I discovered that I don't like managing people, I don't like meetings, and I don't like paperwork. I like long periods of focus. So I'm a software dev/architect…

[flagged]

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#255

In 2 days time I'll mark my 27th year as a professional programmer (and just over 40 years since I started programming). I've worked in small companies, big companies, and mega-corporations. I've been a programmer, manager, team lead and CTO. And in doing so I discovered that I don't like managing people, I don't like meetings, and I don't like paperwork. I like long periods of focus. So I'm a software dev/architect…

Any interest in workers coops given that realization? I too realized I don’t want to manage/own workers nor be managed but there is a third way

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea if I am considered "young" (32), but I taught a few classes over the last few semesters to students who were unambiguously young, and I can definitely say that young people coding for fun are definitely out there. A few students of mine would show me little games they were working on, or websites they were building. Sure, they might be doing this a bit for resume-fuel, but it was abundantly obvious to…

The "it's for the resume" is a convenient excuse when people ask you why are you spending hundreds of hours on something that seems pointless but is fun to code.

Anecdotally true: when my non-technically-inclined parents ask me why I'm working on my personal projects, I vaguely mumble something about "it'll be good for my resume" and try to change the topic.

I definitely do not think these will benefit my resume in any way.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a current undergraduate, programming for fun is ubiquitous in my peers. Surprises me also that the author has to ask.

In a bit of fairness, I know a lot of very competent engineers who do not code for fun at all. Programming is purely a job for them, and then they go home and hack on nothing. There's honestly nothing wrong with that. It's perfectly valid to do something purely for the pay (so long as what you're doing is ethical, obviously). I suspect there are plenty of young people who see the bloated salaries that software engine…

As someone who studied programming in the 90's, I can tell you that I was surprised about how many students were not passionated like myself. And this was already before the wave of scientist coming from other fields (physics, chemistry, biology) to computing in early 2000s.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#259

I find it surprising (in a good way) the author could be a programmer for 26 years at Apple. A lot of corporate places I've worked at are always pushing you to progress in to leadership positions; if you aren't moving upwards then you are "managed out" which I always find really sad, the idea that simply being good at your job is now no longer enough. Good on Apple if they don't follow this type of thinking.

What does "managed out" mean?

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those kinds of managers may not be coders but assuming they are actually good at managing (and know their limitations), they play an important role. It’s important to respect that other people are bringing different things to the table. Everyone’s got different strengths and weaknesses.

> Those kinds of managers may not be coders but assuming they are actually good at managing (and know their limitations), they play an important role. What role is that?

Translating good decisions from these genius coders into management-speak (aka justifying good technical decisions with sound business acumen) and managing political capital in order to be able to push through non-negotiable technical efforts or, on the flipside, gain favor in exchange for not being able to do all the things we want to do.
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