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Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

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Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#161

Post by nemetroid »

resonious wrote: post #117
crossroadsguy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> replaced by a clock-in and clock-out mentality I started as a software engineer who was "passionate about software" and could see my life revolving around it. The change in my mindset towards this, that gradually happened few years ago, i.e. the "clock-in and clock-out mentality" is one of the best changes in my life! It always shocks me to see such sentiments from people. I mean how difficult is it for people to c…

"Work is work" is a perfectly fair conclusion. It works pretty well (so to speak) and you can live comfortably like that. Many people do. On the other hand, there's something that eats at me all the time: the fact that a huge portion of my life is spent on work. If I had to choose between zoning out for 8 hours a day vs working towards something I care about for 10+ hours a day, I can't help but feel like the latter…

The parent commenter wrote:

> Clock-in, clock-out doesn't mean these software engineers don't like the work they do, or do not write software that is good, or that they do not take pride in, or they do not feel responsible for it.

I don't think "zoning out for 8 hours a day" is a fair representation of that.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#162

Post by mhh__ »

cheschire wrote: post #18

I once had a PM who told me coding was just a stepping stone to them in their career. I couldn’t understand, I thought they must not have been a “natural” like me. Fast forward a few years, after taking on more mentorship roles, then staff responsibilities, then slipping into project oversight roles… She was so right. Coding was a great stepping stone. Several years ago my father got promoted to some leadership role.…

A cost of bad technical leadership is making it look like all talent is the same.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#163

Post by qup »

jjxw wrote: post #21
pinewurst wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone planning to "retire" very soon, I don't like that word at all. I'm hardly planning to move to Florida for wife swapping and pickleball with the other oldsters. I'll be doing whatever suits my fancy, including software, albeit sans Jira and keeping GoogSoft suits happy with the proper newspeak.

100% agree. Does anyone know of a word that means "retirement" without the "not working" connotation? I'm in the same camp as someone who is aspiring to "retire early", but it will be more of a "work on whatever I want to" kind of retirement and not "move to Florida" type of retirement.

Maybe a really easy solution is to incorporate yourself and then just say you started a software company.

That's if you're like me, and you find this question really annoying to explain, and it gets asked constantly.

"Self-employed" sets off a lot of bullshit detectors, because...well, lots of bullshitters use that one.

Or maybe just keep saying programmer, if that's what you're doing. No need to explain in detail how the compensation works (or doesn't exist).

"I retired from corporate, doing my own thing."?

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#165

Post by nemetroid »

rubicon33 wrote: post #52

> I am not sure though if this is still the case for software engineers. Are there younger engineers, new to the career, for whom programming is not merely a job but something they can imagine doing in their spare time? I think I met a few as I was winding down my career. I do feel though that back around 1988 or so when I started getting serious into programming that all fellow programmers I met were also doing it w…

> The lack of enthusiasm and genuine interest is replaced by a clock-in and clock-out mentality.

There's nothing incompatible about those two things.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#166

Post by amelius »

oefrha wrote: post #156
lastangryman wrote: post #102

I find it surprising (in a good way) the author could be a programmer for 26 years at Apple. A lot of corporate places I've worked at are always pushing you to progress in to leadership positions; if you aren't moving upwards then you are "managed out" which I always find really sad, the idea that simply being good at your job is now no longer enough. Good on Apple if they don't follow this type of thinking.

In (one) theory, pressuring everyone to always move up results in everyone eventually stuck in a role they are not good at.

Peter principle.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#167

Post by logbiscuitswave »

lastangryman wrote: post #102

I find it surprising (in a good way) the author could be a programmer for 26 years at Apple. A lot of corporate places I've worked at are always pushing you to progress in to leadership positions; if you aren't moving upwards then you are "managed out" which I always find really sad, the idea that simply being good at your job is now no longer enough. Good on Apple if they don't follow this type of thinking.

I’ve also been somewhat scarred by having a previous boss who was on the older side. He only became a manager because of an ego thing where he “didn’t want to report to someone half his age”. He ended up being a terrible manager and basically ended up driving me to leave for another team. I don’t want to become that guy.

That experience was very eye opening to me. As a result, despite being offered lead positions several times, I’ve always declined. I know where my talents and interests are, and they most certainly aren’t in “people problems” or managing someone else’s career. Thankfully my employer still has a very robust career track for people like me.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#168

Post by bboygravity »

tm-guimaraes wrote: post #140
doppel wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel it's completely acceptable to wish to stay in an IC position, but to refuse outright to give advise or share the experience (it's hard to tell from your short paragraph) seems... odd? It's acceptable to want to stay in a specific role, but I am not certain I feel it's acceptable to eschew an increasing responsibility or mentoring role as you gain experience. That way lies the "genius programmer that works alon…

Saying “no” is the correct answer. It’s the same as not solving chat request bypassing prioritization. The company is full of incentives to ask that guy for guidance/things, if he doesn’t say no most or all of the time, he simply won’t have time for his IC role, and would remain a lead just not in name. It’s hard that it comes to that extreme measure, but if his requests aren’t being heard, it’s either that or leavin…

Another simple trick if you don't like saying "no": become a freelancer.

It will never ever occur to anybody in the company that a freelance software dev could possibly be put into a management role, so they won't ask. As opposed to an employed software dev.

Bonus if you're in the EU/UK: in most countries in the EU this will even lead to tax breaks and higher before-tax hourly rates. To the point that you'll make (way) more than your "higher"-up(s).

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#169

Post by Charlie_Black »

totorovirus wrote: post #157

What I've seen in the past two years, a lot of people who have seemingly no fit to a life of a programmer have joined software industry. In my experience the best devs were the people who self-taught programming for pure joy of building a software, making a glimpse of imaging to something real through writing code. The others who were on this job because the compensation was hefty - they were likely to opt out to a m…

The best engineers I know all started coding for fun too. Not to build "real-life" usable software, but to solve algorithmic puzzles.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#170

Post by johannes1234321 »

arealaccount wrote: post #9
nawgz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really follow you. This roughly implies everyone is addicted to their jobs…

Or more like the paycheck is an enabler for an unhealthy escape

There is a group who focusses on the paycheck. In my experience they often aren't the better ones. For many there however is also some intrinsic motivation in doing something "worthwhile" or "challenging"

For me money is a necessity, but not the goal. I could do jobs I care less about for more money (which of course makes my boss happy, that I don't change)

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