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Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

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Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#31

> The respite from programming though lasted maybe about four months after retiring. I started a small project , in part to learn Python, in part to play with e-ink displays. I was back programming (back abusing git) but of course the pressure was off. It both was and wasn’t like the day job I had left behind. This is one reasons I got disillusioned with FIRE and the concept of early retirement. Programming was my fi…

I feel the exact same way, but from the perspective of a researcher. During my high school and undergraduate years I was inspired by stories of researchers at Bell Labs and Xerox PARC who invented so many fundamental technologies and had a profound impact on computing. I was also inspired by the great computers of the past (especially NeXT) and was excited about each and every release of Mac OS X.

Now that I’m more than a decade removed from my undergraduate years, I find myself disillusioned with the state of computing and research these days. Neither Apple nor Microsoft seem to care about pushing personal computing further anymore; it’s about maintaining and strengthening their cash cows. Google, Meta, and Amazon don’t impress me like they did a decade ago, when I used to joyfully study the research papers describing the interesting infrastructure they built. The days of places like Bell Labs and Xerox PARC where researchers generally had free reign to pursue their ideas are long gone; industrial research today is very business-focused, where researchers are required to put the interests of the company ahead of their personal research interests. Academia is no better; the competition is high (especially at research universities), the pay is low (especially at teaching universities), and there are pressures not only to publish regularly, but to raise grant money, which naturally curbs research freedom. This is the world I find myself navigating; I found myself training and striving for a career that no longer exists.

I’m still thinking about long-term plans for me to pursue the type of career that I want despite today’s environment. America’s high cost of living makes FIRE difficult for me unless I decide to “grind Leetcode” and join a FAANG to optimize my compensation, and even that strategy may be obsolete in 2023 due to layoffs and hiring freezes. Alternatively, I’m thinking about one day starting a bootstrapped business, one that is profitable enough to be able to fund my living expenses and to provide healthy wages and benefits for my staff. One day I’ll make enough money to where I can enough savings to be able to pursue my own research projects without having to worry about publish-or-perish pressures or about business matters. I’d like to also teach on the side, though due to low adjunct wages I don’t want to pursue that as my main job.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#32
post #6

> What am I trying to say? I have a programming addiction? (Maybe.) I think all of us do, to some degree. You have to to endure hours on end staring at a glowing screen and banging your head against a mechanical keyboard.

I don’t really follow you. This roughly implies everyone is addicted to their jobs…

Most people are. Even stuff you might not like, such as pressure, can be addictive.

I know I’ve felt “withdraw” symptoms on extended holidays after intense work sprints. And I consider myself a lazy bastard.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#33
>Are there younger engineers, new to the career, for whom programming is not merely a job but something they can imagine doing in their spare time?

I'm sure there are, but I don't know any. I have the passion (obsession as my mother called it). I've been fascinated with computers since before 3rd grade when my public elementary school installed a computer lab with TRS-80s. They soon invited me to help teach the "adult" computer class (as a 3rd grader) they offered in the evening to the local community. It was then discovering the world of BBS, then running my own, then coding it to my taste. In college came the internet and the rest is history. I have the theory that it was the timeframe when microcomputers just started to come and grow their legs is what birthed such passion in so many people. I'm not sure how much of it still exists to the current youth generations, but it sure existed in mine.

PS: I do miss those cigarettes.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#34

I once had a PM who told me coding was just a stepping stone to them in their career. I couldn’t understand, I thought they must not have been a “natural” like me. Fast forward a few years, after taking on more mentorship roles, then staff responsibilities, then slipping into project oversight roles… She was so right. Coding was a great stepping stone. Several years ago my father got promoted to some leadership role.…

> Technical leadership is very expensive to find though, and once you find one you don’t let them go back to the production line.

I have a friend at our company who is a gifted programmer. He was moved into a management position. He discovered that he hated working in a leadership position. He tried to get them to move him back to an individual contributor position. They refused. He said, move me back or I quit. It took them more than a year to transition him back to an individual contributor role. That was a few years ago and he has been happily plugging along ever since. He says that even after he transitioned back, they kept coming to him to get his opinion on issues, the only way he got them to stop was to completely refuse to respond.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#35
post #4

> What am I trying to say? I have a programming addiction? (Maybe.) I think all of us do, to some degree. You have to to endure hours on end staring at a glowing screen and banging your head against a mechanical keyboard.

Not necessarily. At least for those of us from Asian cultures, it's not that unusual to sacrifice and do something you hate or at least are ambivalent towards because it's a well paying stable career.

I love programming. More each day and I’ve done it for decades.

But I think everyone who enjoys the process of squeezing their thoughts through the rigors of a machine is at least a little bit funny in the head. I love it, but it’s bonkers.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#36

> What am I trying to say? I have a programming addiction? (Maybe.) I think all of us do, to some degree. You have to to endure hours on end staring at a glowing screen and banging your head against a mechanical keyboard.

I’ve been programming professionally for over 25 years. I have not written a line of code for “fun” since I graduated from college.

But did you have fun while being payed to write those lines? I hope so.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#37
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone planning to "retire" very soon, I don't like that word at all. I'm hardly planning to move to Florida for wife swapping and pickleball with the other oldsters. I'll be doing whatever suits my fancy, including software, albeit sans Jira and keeping GoogSoft suits happy with the proper newspeak.

100% agree. Does anyone know of a word that means "retirement" without the "not working" connotation? I'm in the same camp as someone who is aspiring to "retire early", but it will be more of a "work on whatever I want to" kind of retirement and not "move to Florida" type of retirement.

Don't use the term "retirement." Instead, you're doing a solo startup. Add that it's in stealth mode if you don't feel like talking about your current focus of attention. If I'm reading your comment correctly, it's not even a lie; it sounds like you'd be happy turning a hobby into a business if that's where fate took you.

I "retired" about a year ago after almost 25 years in the industry. My story since then is a lot like that of the author of the article. I've written more code this year for love than I bet I did in 10 years for pay. It's been exactly the retirement I wanted: one of the most productive times of my life.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#38
I am self-taught with computers in the sense that I read every computer book I could find before my first computer at the age of 10, a Commodore VIC-20; everything else came from that. Elementary-school classes on Logo, AP Computer Science in high school, and one one-credit Java class in college are the extent of my formal education in computer science. I've never worked as and have never wanted to be a professional programmer.

I worked through Columbia doing user support for the university's Unix systems group. I got a job on Wall Street like many classmates, but for which the hiring person (an equity analyst covering software companies) was specifically looking for a CS major; I was able to demonstrate that I had the equivalent background thereof.

I have been successful with computers because I enjoy working with them. I enjoy computers because it's a hobby, albeit one that has affected my entire working life. I suspect that I would not enjoy computers as much were it actually my job. Since it isn't, I have the freedom of being able to (for example) write Elisp[1] to improve VM, the Emacs-based email client I've used for almost three decades. While I may contribute my code back to the VM project someday, meanwhile I report to no one and have no deadlines other than my own. That's freedom.

[1] I well remember the epiphany the day in Logo class I realized what recursion is. I still feel like giggling when I find an Elisp task for which recursion is an effective solution.

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