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Hoarding

michaelsamsel.com

11–20 of 71 posts

Re: Hoarding

#13
I grew up in two hoarder houses (parents and grandparents). I disagree with many of the things said in this article.

First of all the thing about hoarding being triggered by loss: I think this has more to do with psychoanalysts looking for an explanatory reason of that sort. (I.e. Freudian bullshit.) From my observation it is more of a genetic personality trait that the person has already had the inclination to hoarding independent of any life events. Certainly life events or the loss of a loved one could make a barely-in-control hoarding situation spiral out of control, but it didn't start the hoarding any more than gunshot sounds cause avalanches unless avalanche conditions were already present.

Second to the points about inability to describe the objects in detail, to handle the objects for more than a short time, or not being able to reliably tell the animals apart in an animal hoarding situation. We had 19 cats (in a 2 bedroom), and it was bad for us and the animals, but we definitely could tell them apart! Photographic memory runs in my family; most of us could in fact describe most of the objects. That's part of the problem! A tendency to see every object as unique contributes to inability to not keep them all.

I feel like TFA was written from the perspective of someone who has no personal experience or understanding. A recent experience at my mother's house provides a much better illustration of why hoarding happens. Her doorstep had rotted out and I had to rebuild it. My mother suggested I use some polyurethane coating to finish the wood, but the bottle she'd been saving had been open an unknown number of years and turned into a disgusting milkshake. I said we better not use that and would just buy a new bottle. I asked if I could take the spoiled bottle to the trash for her and she almost agreed, but at the last moment stopped me. She wanted to look up on the internet whether there was a way to turn the spoiled polyurethane back into usable, and asked me to put it in the separate RV (itself falling to pieces) until she has time to do that.

Here's the key: it's an inability to make decisions. That's it. The emotional distress component follows from the stress of being unable to make a decision, not the other way around. (The reason a decision cannot be made is because the future cannot be completely known, thus it is impossible to say a discarded item will definitely not turn out to have been needed.) The build-up of things comes from putting off the decisions to keep or get rid of things indefinitely.

Re: Hoarding

#14

I grew up in two hoarder houses (parents and grandparents). I disagree with many of the things said in this article. First of all the thing about hoarding being triggered by loss: I think this has more to do with psychoanalysts looking for an explanatory reason of that sort. (I.e. Freudian bullshit.) From my observation it is more of a genetic personality trait that the person has already had the inclination to hoard…

I think your point at the end about the inability to make decisions hits the nail on the head. Would be interesting to see a study of decisiveness & hoarding correlation.

Inertia is a hell of a thing. Selling, donating, recycling, or disposing of items is an active decision.

Re: Hoarding

#15
I think everyone has hoarding behavior wired into their psyche. Some people have it trained out of their behavior, but many have had it trained in.

Lots of retail and software companies train you to make money. Free to play gaming companies monetize by creating collections of things, and making you jump through hoops to complete them.

Retail does it. Clothing companies make clothes that work as a set. Power tool companies make batteries that only work with their collection of tools, and keep adding tools. Apple ecosystem.

maintaining is another subject. Is that organizing?

I've listened to a few audiobooks on organizing. Two that stood out were the Tidying book by Marie Kondo's, and also Decluttering at the Speed of Life by Dana White.

At first, the clear winner was Marie Kondo. It made so much sense, philosophically. You just adopt this mindset, everyone in japan does it, and boom. However, it was really hard to implement ("do it all at once") and never got going.

The Decluttering audiobook was actually annoying at first, too many examples that I didn't connect with. Philosophically it seemed wrong too ("just get rid of stuff until the stuff you have fits"). However, in the end I think it has practical advice... and then goes on to some real wisdom.

(maybe implement decluttering then read kondo afterwards)

Re: Hoarding

#16

I grew up in two hoarder houses (parents and grandparents). I disagree with many of the things said in this article. First of all the thing about hoarding being triggered by loss: I think this has more to do with psychoanalysts looking for an explanatory reason of that sort. (I.e. Freudian bullshit.) From my observation it is more of a genetic personality trait that the person has already had the inclination to hoard…

>it's an inability to make decisions. That's it.

I would say it's an inability to execute the 'correct' decision society has imposed on them. Hoarders can make decisions just as well as anyone. Their unique problem occurs when it's apparent to everyone but the hoarder that it's time to discard an item. It's always something that has almost zero vale, but never none. The hoarder distorts reality, and imagines a world where the item holds some non-zero value in the remote future. My feeling is that it's somewhat linked to gambling addiction. It's as if they were a poker player, constantly betting and playing games for hundredths of a cent. It doesn't matter what cards they're dealt. At this price, they never need to fold, and so they never discard even a truly terrible hand. By doing so, they retain a very slight chance of winning the game. If their objective is to win as many games as they can, without losing any of their money, this is a valid strategy. We see this strategy as hoarding.

Re: Hoarding

#18

I grew up in two hoarder houses (parents and grandparents). I disagree with many of the things said in this article. First of all the thing about hoarding being triggered by loss: I think this has more to do with psychoanalysts looking for an explanatory reason of that sort. (I.e. Freudian bullshit.) From my observation it is more of a genetic personality trait that the person has already had the inclination to hoard…

> it's an inability to make decisions

I think your polyurethane example mirrors what I see with my mom, and to some degree in myself, and it's something different. It's a fear that you're throwing away something useful. It's not that me or my mom is unable to decide, it's just that we don't want to throw it away because perhaps one day it might be useful (to us or someone else), so we decide to keep it.

I'm trying to improve. I go through my stuff routinely with my SO and I force myself to get rid of things, either give them away or recycle. Do I really need this?

I talked to my mom, she wanted help but she's always talking about "sorting through" stuff. I said I'd only be willing to help if we actually threw away some stuff each time. There's just too much stuff for me to go through again and again. Suddenly it turned into a hard no. She refused my help if we had to throw away something each time. I said fair enough, perhaps not always but most of the times. Still hard no.

Admittedly she has some historically interesting things, and some useful stuff. But also a lot of junk that nobody wants anymore, like that can of polyurethane. And she just can't let go in case it might be useful...

Re: Hoarding

#19
post #15

I think everyone has hoarding behavior wired into their psyche. Some people have it trained out of their behavior, but many have had it trained in. Lots of retail and software companies train you to make money. Free to play gaming companies monetize by creating collections of things, and making you jump through hoops to complete them. Retail does it. Clothing companies make clothes that work as a set. Power tool comp…

I don't think everyone has hoarding wired into their psyche. I am the complete opposite, I hate accumulating things and having any clutter. My spouse does like to hold onto things well past their usefulness for emotional reasons, and it's a constant source of conflict because I want to get rid of them.
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