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US is expanding CO2 pipelines. One poisoned town wants you to know its story

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41–50 of 74 posts

Re: US is expanding CO2 pipelines. One poisoned town wants you to know its story

#41
post #6
post #3

I wonder how practical it would be to add something smelly and distinctive to CO2 the way we do with natural gas? Otherwise a CO2 leak is really mysterious. It could be in quite low concentrations, to the point where you would only smell it if the air was getting to dangerous levels. This wouldn't help with a release from a natural source, but if we are ramping up carbon capture efforts maybe we'll see more industria…

could be harder to find something that sticks with the CO2 given the molecule sizes? CO2 is also relatively easy to monitor, so sensors + awareness of people living/working nearby should also cover a lot. But both of course only would give better warning, not solve the challenge of dealing with the situation when it has happened.

> CO2 is also relatively easy to monitor

And yet we inexplicably don't monitor it at all. You can download apps to show you national and local levels of all sorts of pollutants... but not CO2. Outdoor CO2 is tracked at a single point on the Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii... and that's pretty much it.

It's bizarre. It's easy to buy an indoor CO2 monitor (I use one to determine when I should open my windows more/less to keep the air inside fresh), but at a local/national monitoring level it simply doesn't exist.

Re: US is expanding CO2 pipelines. One poisoned town wants you to know its story

#42
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. The answer is: Ridiculously high Government subsidies. In other words, this is simply a stealth tax on the public where the only winners are corporations which benefit via very generous tax credits.

It's ANOTHER subsidy for the fossil industry. We (earth) already pay [1] them around us$1T/yr to accelerate our demise. CO2 offset subsidies are on top of this [2]. So instead of stopping X, we pay them to continue X and then pay them to cook some books about X. Insane. We will be the first species driven to extinction because the alternative wasn't profitable. [1] https://www.iea.org/reports/fossil-fuels-consumption…

Oh, don't worry too much. As a Nobel Prize winning economist once said, Agriculture is an industry affected heavily by climate change, but it's only worth 2% of world GDP.

Re: US is expanding CO2 pipelines. One poisoned town wants you to know its story

#43
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we please avoid mass hysteria about rail? As you've seen, bulk shipping by pipelines is incredible stupid. Moving dangerous stuff is always risky, there’s plenty of disasters from both. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents From 1994 through 2013, the U.S. had 745 serious incidents with gas distribution, causing 278 fatalities and 1059 injuries, with $110,658,083 in property damage. US: From 19…

> From 1994 through 2013, the U.S. had 745 serious incidents with gas distribution This is incredibly misleading because of the scale and method of distribution. Tens of millions of houses in the US have gas pipelines leading directly into the kitchen! Of course there will be a lot of serious incidents. If people shipped gas to their kitchen ranges by rail, there would be a lot more serious train incidents too! Simil…

I highlighted the bit associated with transmission vs distribution, but it’s not completely clear cut. Some issues with transmission resulted in distribution problems: https://youtu.be/QPL8dh6b1M0

Anyway, by far the safer solution is electricity not using rail or pipelines to move fossil fuels.

Re: US is expanding CO2 pipelines. One poisoned town wants you to know its story

#44
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we please avoid mass hysteria about rail? As you've seen, bulk shipping by pipelines is incredible stupid. Moving dangerous stuff is always risky, there’s plenty of disasters from both. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents From 1994 through 2013, the U.S. had 745 serious incidents with gas distribution, causing 278 fatalities and 1059 injuries, with $110,658,083 in property damage. US: From 19…

> From 1994 through 2013, the U.S. had 745 serious incidents with gas distribution This is incredibly misleading because of the scale and method of distribution. Tens of millions of houses in the US have gas pipelines leading directly into the kitchen! Of course there will be a lot of serious incidents. If people shipped gas to their kitchen ranges by rail, there would be a lot more serious train incidents too! Simil…

[deleted]

Re: US is expanding CO2 pipelines. One poisoned town wants you to know its story

#45
post #29
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we please avoid mass hysteria about rail? As you've seen, bulk shipping by pipelines is incredible stupid. Moving dangerous stuff is always risky, there’s plenty of disasters from both. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents From 1994 through 2013, the U.S. had 745 serious incidents with gas distribution, causing 278 fatalities and 1059 injuries, with $110,658,083 in property damage. US: From 19…

The science is conclusive that pipelines are the LEAST dangerous and leaky method of transporting anything.

They are significantly more dangerous than using power lines to move the equivalent amount of energy.

This is one of the reasons we moved to electric lighting from gas lamps, but the same is true of home heating and electric cars etc.

Re: US is expanding CO2 pipelines. One poisoned town wants you to know its story

#46
Wouldn't just planting trees be way more economical and effective? Why isn't the government subsidizing planting trees as they are these pipelines?

How many trees do they have to cut down to run these pipelines is probably a question someone should also be asking...

Re: US is expanding CO2 pipelines. One poisoned town wants you to know its story

#47
post #3

I wonder how practical it would be to add something smelly and distinctive to CO2 the way we do with natural gas? Otherwise a CO2 leak is really mysterious. It could be in quite low concentrations, to the point where you would only smell it if the air was getting to dangerous levels. This wouldn't help with a release from a natural source, but if we are ramping up carbon capture efforts maybe we'll see more industria…

The article you’re commenting on has quite a bit of information about this and industry efforts around it.

Short answer is yes, it’s possible, and yes they are working on doing it.

Re: US is expanding CO2 pipelines. One poisoned town wants you to know its story

#48

Wasn't there a general consensus from most scientist that methods for CO2 storage or filtering it out of the air are highly flawed, inefficient and not worth pursing when it comes to combat climate change? Or do I misremember?

The co2 in the article (and apparently 70% nationwide) is being pumped into oil fields to help get the oil out.

It’s only about combatting climate change if you ask the PR department

Re: US is expanding CO2 pipelines. One poisoned town wants you to know its story

#49
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we please avoid mass hysteria about rail? As you've seen, bulk shipping by pipelines is incredible stupid. Moving dangerous stuff is always risky, there’s plenty of disasters from both. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents From 1994 through 2013, the U.S. had 745 serious incidents with gas distribution, causing 278 fatalities and 1059 injuries, with $110,658,083 in property damage. US: From 19…

> From 1994 through 2013, the U.S. had 745 serious incidents with gas distribution This is incredibly misleading because of the scale and method of distribution. Tens of millions of houses in the US have gas pipelines leading directly into the kitchen! Of course there will be a lot of serious incidents. If people shipped gas to their kitchen ranges by rail, there would be a lot more serious train incidents too! Simil…

Tons of people (almost everyone in rural areas) do get their gas shipments by rail and truck. Although, in that case it tends to be LPG and not natural gas.

Re: US is expanding CO2 pipelines. One poisoned town wants you to know its story

#50

[flagged]

I read the article, and it didn’t mention anything about any deaths. It sounds like it’s mostly long term respiratory issues in a few people.

It also has nothing to do with power generation or nuclear power.

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