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Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

biorxiv.org

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Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#41

Post by ChoGGi »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #9
adhesive_wombat wrote: post #4

Cultured meat is all bullshit marketing until supermarkets at least sell simple tofu for less than chicken. It's just mashed-up beans, loads of water and a teaspoon of rock powder! The Chinese supermarkets can do it, but in normal supermarkets, everything meat-free is positioned as a luxury rich-people thing. Organic this, handmade that, marinated the other. Hovering at £6 or £8 a kilo. Meanwhile the shelves next to…

To invoke soy's pricing in the Western world (let alone the UK) and not also acknowledge that it contains phytoestrogens is disingenuous because this affects the pricing of it due to volume sold. Aside from tofu causing me intolerable heartburn, I also wouldn't eat it because of the phytoestrogens. Quorn vegetarian mince is cheap, no hormones, antibiotics or fat. Real low-fat meat mince is £1 more per kg than Quorn m…

> Aside from tofu causing me intolerable heartburn, I also wouldn't eat it because of the phytoestrogens.

Would you be against coffee and tea as well, or is the dose low enough to not worry about?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23141692_Phytoestro...

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#42

Post by jrajav »

_milgram224 wrote: post #38

Everyone who knows anything at all about agriculture knew this already. Pasture raised meat is one of the best environmental resources there is, and the largest climate threat we face by far is a direct result of the reduction of pasture raising animals. Soil is life and we have absolutely destroyed it.

This is a take I haven't seen much before, and I'd like to learn more about it. Do you have any sources?

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#44

Post by hammyhavoc »

ChoGGi wrote: post #41
hammyhavoc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To invoke soy's pricing in the Western world (let alone the UK) and not also acknowledge that it contains phytoestrogens is disingenuous because this affects the pricing of it due to volume sold. Aside from tofu causing me intolerable heartburn, I also wouldn't eat it because of the phytoestrogens. Quorn vegetarian mince is cheap, no hormones, antibiotics or fat. Real low-fat meat mince is £1 more per kg than Quorn m…

> Aside from tofu causing me intolerable heartburn, I also wouldn't eat it because of the phytoestrogens. Would you be against coffee and tea as well, or is the dose low enough to not worry about? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23141692_Phytoestro...

I'm not "against" anything, but I only drink water in 2023. Furthermore, beer has a far higher amount than coffee. FWIW, it's only some herbal teas that contain phytoestrogens.

A more compelling "gotcha" would have been invoking something like broccoli, which is higher again, and actually higher than natto (fermented soybeans) per 100g.

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#46

Post by bjoli »

mrighele wrote: post #36
bjoli wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look no further than you country's dietary recommendations. They all say something along the lines "eat mostly legumes, whole grains, leafy green vegetables and other vegetables". It probably even tells you to cut down on beef and pork. Sweden's national food agency even has advice directed at vegans saying mostly the same things as it tells meaties, but adds "try to eat an iron source with all food (beans, nuts), su…

> "eat mostly legumes, whole grains, leafy green vegetables and other vegetables". It probably even tells you to cut down on beef and pork. Yes, as I wrote we tend to eat too much meat in the west. But cutting down on meat consumption and eating mostly vegetables doesn't mean avoiding eating meat at all.

The thing is, information on how to do it in a safe and healthy way is available, sometimes even from your national food agency.

The problem is, I think, that people do not follow the guidelines of the food agencies anyway. If you follow the guidelines but on a vegan diet, making sure to supplement b12, you won't have to do any planning. A healthy dietary pattern looks the same if you don't eat meat. People most often just have to make sure they get enough calories.

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#47

Post by adhesive_wombat »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #9
adhesive_wombat wrote: post #4

Cultured meat is all bullshit marketing until supermarkets at least sell simple tofu for less than chicken. It's just mashed-up beans, loads of water and a teaspoon of rock powder! The Chinese supermarkets can do it, but in normal supermarkets, everything meat-free is positioned as a luxury rich-people thing. Organic this, handmade that, marinated the other. Hovering at £6 or £8 a kilo. Meanwhile the shelves next to…

To invoke soy's pricing in the Western world (let alone the UK) and not also acknowledge that it contains phytoestrogens is disingenuous because this affects the pricing of it due to volume sold. Aside from tofu causing me intolerable heartburn, I also wouldn't eat it because of the phytoestrogens. Quorn vegetarian mince is cheap, no hormones, antibiotics or fat. Real low-fat meat mince is £1 more per kg than Quorn m…

> this affects the pricing of it due to volume sold.

And yet the Chinese supermarket 1km from Tesco can sell it at £2.40/kg, and at Tesco it starts at over £6. It's clearly possible.

As for Quorn, I used to eat tons of that as I had a vegetarian parent. It's "OK", but if we're doing anecdata, it does cause digestive problems for many people. As I'm not vegetarian, I don't feel the need to use meat replacements. If I'm eating something else it's because I want to.

As far as I can tell, non-exclusive consumption of tofu is unlikely to be a major issue in terms of health effects of phytoestrogens (at least compared to what I would say are my top health risks: sedentary job, then probably occasional cured meats and overall salt intake).

> Do we need cultured meat when Quorn is satisfactory for most people who don't eat meat for whatever reason?

Exactly my original point with a substitution of a different protein source.

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#48

Post by bjoli »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #9
adhesive_wombat wrote: post #4

Cultured meat is all bullshit marketing until supermarkets at least sell simple tofu for less than chicken. It's just mashed-up beans, loads of water and a teaspoon of rock powder! The Chinese supermarkets can do it, but in normal supermarkets, everything meat-free is positioned as a luxury rich-people thing. Organic this, handmade that, marinated the other. Hovering at £6 or £8 a kilo. Meanwhile the shelves next to…

To invoke soy's pricing in the Western world (let alone the UK) and not also acknowledge that it contains phytoestrogens is disingenuous because this affects the pricing of it due to volume sold. Aside from tofu causing me intolerable heartburn, I also wouldn't eat it because of the phytoestrogens. Quorn vegetarian mince is cheap, no hormones, antibiotics or fat. Real low-fat meat mince is £1 more per kg than Quorn m…

There are quite few high quality human studies showing phytoestrogens to have negative effects, and quite a few showing positive effects?

Isoflavones (the one most common in soy) has not been shown to affect testosterone levels or fertility, while having lots of positive effects.

The estrogen activity of phytoestrogens is, as a bonus, very low.

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#50

Post by lambdaba »

bjoli wrote: post #22
lambdaba wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

People say that, but when the Academy of nutritionist and dietetics and various government agencies says it is possible to live a healthy life on a plant based diet you know it is baloney. It consists mostly of the things people have been telling us to eat for ages. Whole grains. Legumes. Leafy greens. Vegetables. Some vegetable oil like rapeseed or olive oil. Supplement with b12 and drink fortified milk alternatives…

"ages" = a few decades tops

"you know it is baloney" -> I do not

"but when the Academy of nutritionist and dietetics and various government agencies says" LOL

I will refrain from commenting on such topics in the future, the ideological grip on some is hopeless for the time being.

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