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Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

biorxiv.org

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Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#31

Post by willcipriano »

tourmalinetaco wrote: post #25
mrighele wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those vegetarians doing just fine have usually to be much more careful about what they eat than meat-eaters, so this tells me that meat is not just an unnecessary luxury. While in the west we eat much more meat that necessary, I don't think that stopping consuming it is the right course of action. There are alternatives to meat, like bugs, but that is not what vegetarians do or preach.

If your first alternative to meat is bugs then I’m sorry but you need to readjust your idea of what an alternative is. Until I see Bill Gates do as he preaches and chow down on a plate of live insects, me and 6 billion other people won’t even consider it. What I will consider is something like mianjin, which is the gluten from wheat. Cheap, sustainable, protein-rich, and easily flavored to whatever food you want. Plu…

Gates and crew are giving up private air travel long before I'm eating bugs.

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#32

Post by adhesive_wombat »

shlant wrote: post #21
adhesive_wombat wrote: post #4

Cultured meat is all bullshit marketing until supermarkets at least sell simple tofu for less than chicken. It's just mashed-up beans, loads of water and a teaspoon of rock powder! The Chinese supermarkets can do it, but in normal supermarkets, everything meat-free is positioned as a luxury rich-people thing. Organic this, handmade that, marinated the other. Hovering at £6 or £8 a kilo. Meanwhile the shelves next to…

don't forget that most meat is also subsidized on many levels[1]. Cost would probably be the same or more compared to the normal supermarket price without these subsidies[2]. 1. https://jia.sipa.columbia.edu/removing-meat-subsidy-our-cogn... 2. https://www.aier.org/article/the-true-cost-of-a-hamburger/

Absolutely, but even then it doesn't really explain why no mainstream supermarket can figure out how to offer a non-premium tofu product, products that literally exist already in the country, other than "they just don't want to".

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#33

Post by shlant »

adhesive_wombat wrote: post #32
shlant wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't forget that most meat is also subsidized on many levels[1]. Cost would probably be the same or more compared to the normal supermarket price without these subsidies[2]. 1. https://jia.sipa.columbia.edu/removing-meat-subsidy-our-cogn... 2. https://www.aier.org/article/the-true-cost-of-a-hamburger/

Absolutely, but even then it doesn't really explain why no mainstream supermarket can figure out how to offer a non-premium tofu product, products that literally exist already in the country, other than "they just don't want to".

agreed, same with tempe. Should be way cheaper than it is.

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#34

Post by adhesive_wombat »

tourmalinetaco wrote: post #25
mrighele wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those vegetarians doing just fine have usually to be much more careful about what they eat than meat-eaters, so this tells me that meat is not just an unnecessary luxury. While in the west we eat much more meat that necessary, I don't think that stopping consuming it is the right course of action. There are alternatives to meat, like bugs, but that is not what vegetarians do or preach.

If your first alternative to meat is bugs then I’m sorry but you need to readjust your idea of what an alternative is. Until I see Bill Gates do as he preaches and chow down on a plate of live insects, me and 6 billion other people won’t even consider it. What I will consider is something like mianjin, which is the gluten from wheat. Cheap, sustainable, protein-rich, and easily flavored to whatever food you want. Plu…

I don't know why you'd think they'd be live. I don't eat live chickens, fish or cows. Some people eat live oysters, I guess.

I have actually eaten insects on more than one occasion (some kind of fried cricket, I think). They weren't especially tasty, but they also weren't bad. Just a fairly unexciting snack taste-wise. I'd say "high" game or strong cheese is far, far more of an acquired taste than they were.

Crustaceans are not insects, but insects basically derive from arthropod proto-crustaceans: fundamentally a prawn and a cricket are each roughly the same distance, phylogenetically speaking, from a cow (actually they have 6 legs, not 10, and most are air-breathers, so they're closer in some ways!). Indeed, they can both trigger shellfish allergies. Maybe we're just more used to "weird sea things" being food than "weird land things".

Putting aside the obvious aversion to insect morphologies, if they're being processed into some kind of protein meal, I don't really find that any more objectionable than mechanically-recovered meat slurry, which is a major component of lots of food. Which, to be fair, I do already, generally, avoid.

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#35

Post by telesilla »

I'm saddened none of the comments here acknowledge that alternative sources of protein lead to the demise of the industrial exploitation of animals, who suffer immensely.

I support all efforts to find alternatives. The article states:

>the environmental impact of near-term ACBM (animal cell-based meat) production is likely to be orders of magnitude higher than median beef production if a highly refined growth medium is utilized for ACBM production.

A future of affordable cultured meat is absolutely possible, humans are good enough at problem solving and environmental impact and price will go down.

Without invoking PETA, consider animal welfare before dismissing laboratory/engineered proteins as unnecessary.

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#36

Post by mrighele »

bjoli wrote: post #23
mrighele wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those vegetarians doing just fine have usually to be much more careful about what they eat than meat-eaters, so this tells me that meat is not just an unnecessary luxury. While in the west we eat much more meat that necessary, I don't think that stopping consuming it is the right course of action. There are alternatives to meat, like bugs, but that is not what vegetarians do or preach.

Look no further than you country's dietary recommendations. They all say something along the lines "eat mostly legumes, whole grains, leafy green vegetables and other vegetables". It probably even tells you to cut down on beef and pork. Sweden's national food agency even has advice directed at vegans saying mostly the same things as it tells meaties, but adds "try to eat an iron source with all food (beans, nuts), su…

> "eat mostly legumes, whole grains, leafy green vegetables and other vegetables". It probably even tells you to cut down on beef and pork.

Yes, as I wrote we tend to eat too much meat in the west. But cutting down on meat consumption and eating mostly vegetables doesn't mean avoiding eating meat at all.

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#37

Post by mrighele »

tourmalinetaco wrote: post #25
mrighele wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those vegetarians doing just fine have usually to be much more careful about what they eat than meat-eaters, so this tells me that meat is not just an unnecessary luxury. While in the west we eat much more meat that necessary, I don't think that stopping consuming it is the right course of action. There are alternatives to meat, like bugs, but that is not what vegetarians do or preach.

If your first alternative to meat is bugs then I’m sorry but you need to readjust your idea of what an alternative is. Until I see Bill Gates do as he preaches and chow down on a plate of live insects, me and 6 billion other people won’t even consider it. What I will consider is something like mianjin, which is the gluten from wheat. Cheap, sustainable, protein-rich, and easily flavored to whatever food you want. Plu…

I was not advocating eating bugs in place of meat (I don't like the idea either). I was saying that if for some reason we had to forfait meat, I think it would be easier for the average person to have a proper diet if it included bugs than a vegan one.

That said, I agree with you, those that advocate such a change are the last ones willing to do it (let's guess when meat will disappear from EU Parliament canteen).

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#38

Post by _milgram224 »

Everyone who knows anything at all about agriculture knew this already. Pasture raised meat is one of the best environmental resources there is, and the largest climate threat we face by far is a direct result of the reduction of pasture raising animals. Soil is life and we have absolutely destroyed it.

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#39

Post by xenospn »

telesilla wrote: post #35

I'm saddened none of the comments here acknowledge that alternative sources of protein lead to the demise of the industrial exploitation of animals, who suffer immensely. I support all efforts to find alternatives. The article states: >the environmental impact of near-term ACBM (animal cell-based meat) production is likely to be orders of magnitude higher than median beef production if a highly refined growth medium…

Agreed. We are manufacturing misery and suffering on a planet-wide, industrial scale. Something has to change.

Re: Cultured meat might not be that environmentap friendly

#40

Post by pkphilip »

_milgram224 wrote: post #38

Everyone who knows anything at all about agriculture knew this already. Pasture raised meat is one of the best environmental resources there is, and the largest climate threat we face by far is a direct result of the reduction of pasture raising animals. Soil is life and we have absolutely destroyed it.

Well said. I work with farmers in encouraging natural and organic farming and also in supporting sustainable practices. It would be impossible to do this viably without livestock and planned grazing.
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