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It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

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Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#191

Post by asdfman123 »

nostrademons wrote: post #164
asdfman123 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an engineer at FAANG and it seems absurd, though, that we have so many resources but can’t apply some craftsmanship every so often. Instead, we churn out features, and everyone cheers when someone adds a new button to the UI.

It's not rewarded by the performance review system (except at Apple). You can apply craftsmanship, it's just you won't get credit for it, your manager won't get credit for it, your VP won't get credit for it, and so on. That makes it a hard sell. A good manager's not going to penalize you for going above and beyond and fixing issues that you see, but it's hard to make a case for it when there's lots of other stuff to…

It’s also true that I can become a very good portrait painter, but that’s not going to be rewarded by my job either.

Still, I do try to make quality software, so I can actually be proud of what I’m doing.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#192

Post by antifa »

golergka wrote: post #156
charlie0 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree, but what does this have to do with letting workers work less as productivity increases? Are you implying that stage would only occur if productivity gains are spread equally across the world?

Letting? Nobody is forbidding workers from taking less shifts. It's workers themselves who decide that higher compensation is more important for them than leisure.

The vast majority of workers can't take less shifts, unless they are OK with becoming homeless.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#193

Post by [deleted] »

AllegedAlec wrote: post #107
Kalanos wrote: post #50

Icelandic people barely work as it is. I can't imagine them on a 4 day work week. Asia is going to wipe the floor with the west if we get soft.

I'm not so sure. I've seen particularly the Chinese have real issue that's not rote drone-like work. In the research department I've seen chinese exchange students perform back to back tests for 10-12 hours per day like a machine. However, if you'd ask them why and what they're testing you'd find out that most of them are effectively just shotgunning until they find something that is different. Having a good work lif…

[deleted]

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#194

Post by golergka »

antifa wrote: post #192
golergka wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Letting? Nobody is forbidding workers from taking less shifts. It's workers themselves who decide that higher compensation is more important for them than leisure.

The vast majority of workers can't take less shifts, unless they are OK with becoming homeless.

So you are not really talking about working less, you're taking about higher wages, which is a whole different conversation.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#195

Post by golergka »

pnut wrote: post #174
golergka wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Need to pay for rent is quite literally need to pay back to other human beings for shelter, one of the most basic human needs. Why would it be a bad purpose in life?

Because it relegates your definition of a life purpose to society's value system. If your purpose in life is caring for the infirm or teaching, or doing dance performances, society will not compensate you meaningfully in response. What if your purpose doesn't align with society's definition of talent? Are you worthless as a human being? What then, abandon your true purpose because of economics? These are rules of sca…

The mere fact of paying rent doesn't. It just aligns your definition with society's to a sufficient extent to pay for essentials.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#196

Post by earthling8118 »

Falkon1313 wrote: post #96
deet wrote: post #40

Comments here so far seem to be missing Newport's key point (in the second half of the article)... For many modern (knowledge work) jobs, it's volume of tasks, not duration, that seems to induce burnout. For instance, if you have 1 central task for the week--say, write a report--but there are ten subtasks (hold 5 meetings to prepare, read 3 background papers, ...), and then each of those have a bunch of subtasks (Sla…

On a personal level, we also have to remember to say "No, I can't stay late tonight, I have things to do." or "I had to work a double shift yesterday, so no I am not going to be in first thing in the morning." and so on. When we're young and don't have any clout, it's really hard (and scary) to do that. Which is exactly why those of us who are older and have the experience and acceptance to do so really need to norma…

I wish I was fortunate enough to work at such a place. When I'm given the ability to make those kinds of decisions for myself, I can get some serious work done. However, not many of my jobs have allowed for that. I've even been let go from a job that demanded so much of my time that I did nothing but work and doordash food supposedly because I wasn't putting in the amount of time they wanted.

This industry has completely alienated me to it. I loathe the grueling hours and the job search.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#197

Post by MichaelZuo »

pnut wrote: post #174
golergka wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Need to pay for rent is quite literally need to pay back to other human beings for shelter, one of the most basic human needs. Why would it be a bad purpose in life?

Because it relegates your definition of a life purpose to society's value system. If your purpose in life is caring for the infirm or teaching, or doing dance performances, society will not compensate you meaningfully in response. What if your purpose doesn't align with society's definition of talent? Are you worthless as a human being? What then, abandon your true purpose because of economics? These are rules of sca…

> What if your purpose doesn't align with society's definition of talent? Are you worthless as a human being?

From the perspective of the nebulous and not clearly defined 'society', it certainly seems like it's trending in that direction.

The real question is why do you believe its judgements are what's most important?

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#198

Post by [deleted] »

cableshaft wrote: post #34
JohnFen wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many of those people feel like they have time to pursue more fulfilling activities? And yet, most people have hours every day available to spend watching movies, YouTube, etc. That is time that could be spent doing something fulfilling.

I wouldn’t judge those people too harshly. That might be all they have the mental energy to do at the end of the day, they need to let their brain reset. As someone who tries to spend most of my days after work making games, there are days I just don’t have the mental energy to do it. And there have been months where I haven’t worked on it at all, as work and things in my personal life get more stressful.

[deleted]

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#199

Post by JohnFen »

cableshaft wrote: post #34
JohnFen wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many of those people feel like they have time to pursue more fulfilling activities? And yet, most people have hours every day available to spend watching movies, YouTube, etc. That is time that could be spent doing something fulfilling.

I wouldn’t judge those people too harshly. That might be all they have the mental energy to do at the end of the day, they need to let their brain reset. As someone who tries to spend most of my days after work making games, there are days I just don’t have the mental energy to do it. And there have been months where I haven’t worked on it at all, as work and things in my personal life get more stressful.

Oh, I'm not judging at all -- I have my own preferred time-burners as well. I'm just pointing out that a lot of the time when I hear people say they don't have time for something, they also spend a lot of time every day doing things like that. For many people, "not having time" is the result of decisions about how their time is allocated. Those people can allocate differently if they so choose.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#200

Post by petsfed »

JohnFen wrote: post #21
petsfed wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of those people feel like they have time to pursue more fulfilling activities? Speaking only for myself, my more fulfilling hobbies feel like a zero-sum proposition when I factor in taking care of myself, my kids, my home, etc. What little leisure time activies I pursue are almost all pursued between the hours of 9 and 11pm, because that's the time I have . I think the OP is right in a lot of ways, that work…

> How many of those people feel like they have time to pursue more fulfilling activities? And yet, most people have hours every day available to spend watching movies, YouTube, etc. That is time that could be spent doing something fulfilling.

I think you missed some nuance there. If I only realistically have between 9 and 11pm, I am pretty limited on what hobbies I can take up. It's not just that I'm literally time constrained, but also that the time I have available is not conducive to certain activities, so I'm left with video games, TV, etc.

Its the same story as "I can't go to the bank if they're only open when I have to be at work", but for mental health rather than finances.

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