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A digital payments revolution in India

economist.com

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Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#131

Post by toomuchtodo »

rnjailamba wrote: post #118
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

India: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface Brazil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pix_(payment_system) US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedNow

Singapore: FAST - https://www.abs.org.sg/consumer-banking/fast Thailand: PromptPay - https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Digital-Banking/Prom... Australia: NPP - https://www.rba.gov.au/payments-and-infrastructure/new-payme... Hong Kong: FPS - https://www.hkma.gov.hk/eng/smart-consumers/faster-payment-s... Philippines: InstaPay - https://www.instapayph.com/ Mexico: CoDI - https://www.codi.org.mx/ Indonesia: BI-FAS…

Thanks for sharing these links! If someone wants to start a Wikipedia page enumerating global instant payment systems, I'm happy to chip some fiat in. Email in profile.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#132

Post by sunshinerag »

nish1500 wrote: post #6

When you pay a merchant $100 with your card they get about $97. When this $100 has exchanged hands 50 times only $15 remains. The bank owns the other $85. Cash is a hassle but it cuts out the middlemen. We need a unified payment system in western countries, but it's almost impossible given how much of a chokehold big banks have over our economy. Capitalism at its finest.

wow Capitalism? Where?

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#133

Post by alephnerd »

realityking wrote: post #120
ta7789 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, the US government has a long tradition of weaponizing US Dollar and SWIFT to cut off countries from global trade. This is a fact that has been happening ever since the petrodollar was invented. Governments all over the world, especially India, have realized this is a big vulnerability and a threat to their country's sovereignty. India, Brazil and several countries across the world have invested in their o…

> For those who don't know India has been on the receiving end of US sanctions for a variety of reasons. According to wikipedia[0] there‘s only ever been two sanctions against India by the US. A short lived one from 98-99 because of a nuclear ban and a much longer one from 92-2011 related to the space program/missile development. A quick search didn‘t turn up any current US sanctions either. Were there more sanctions…

There were recent (2019-2022) conversations about sanctions against India for buying S-400 missile launchpads [0]

This was dropped after a last minute amendment of CAASTA [1].

Though, if we're actually being honest, there was no real chance of sanctions actually being placed - it was just a negotiating ploy, and Indian Weapons manufacturers are increasingly working with American companies like GE and General Dynamics for IP transfers, though they lag behind Israel, France, and Russia in that market (FCPA's ability to pierce the corporate veil and an imo rightful aversion to IP transfers to generic competitors plays a big role in America's lag in the Indian defense market).

[0] - https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/us-discourages-i...

[1] - https://www.outlookindia.com/national/us-house-votes-for-caa...

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#134

Post by miohtama »

ta7789 wrote: post #105
padiyar83 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for bringing this clarity. And as an Indian citizen I am glad we took this step towards building an independent payments infrastructure, given how critical a payments clearance system is to the functioning of a modern economy. I don't want other governments to hold us hostage through Visa's and Mastercard's where we are just one sanction away from economic meltdown. Just like what happened recently in Russi…

Absolutely, the US government has a long tradition of weaponizing US Dollar and SWIFT to cut off countries from global trade. This is a fact that has been happening ever since the petrodollar was invented. Governments all over the world, especially India, have realized this is a big vulnerability and a threat to their country's sovereignty. India, Brazil and several countries across the world have invested in their o…

The US has a tradition in messing with banking, but it’s not long. While sanctions have existed forever, weaponzing the banking system did not start until the last decade or two, when more power was given to FATF, and other non-elected international bodies led by the US.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#135

Post by valzam »

martyvis wrote: post #126
rnjailamba wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore: FAST - https://www.abs.org.sg/consumer-banking/fast Thailand: PromptPay - https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Digital-Banking/Prom... Australia: NPP - https://www.rba.gov.au/payments-and-infrastructure/new-payme... Hong Kong: FPS - https://www.hkma.gov.hk/eng/smart-consumers/faster-payment-s... Philippines: InstaPay - https://www.instapayph.com/ Mexico: CoDI - https://www.codi.org.mx/ Indonesia: BI-FAS…

NPP is fantastic. (Often referred to as PayID, Fast Payment or Osko, depending on your bank here in Australia). Last Friday I was able to buy an item from a friend while we both standing in his driveway - he confirmed the payment on his account. He just provided his BSB (6 digit bank number) and account and I did the transfer. We both use non major banks. I have used it to settle split bills with colleagues after lun…

You can even a phone number instead of use BSB and acc no. Super convenient

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#137

Post by cuteboy19 »

rvz wrote: post #51
cuteboy19 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although cbdc is a goal, the main purpose of UPI is simplified digital payments. UPI grew because of its technical superiority to existing methods, even regular people could see that difference. It's not because of incentives that it is so popular and most people never recieved them

So that governments can track, freeze and seize your funds at will or add savings limits to your account to get you to spend more and save less. [0] [1] Once the government does something extremely unpopular, I will only see the same thing that happened with the trucker protesters with their bank accounts getting frozen which will happen in other countries for just protesting [2] and next time, CBDCs will play a sign…

A court order in any country in the world will accomplish this goal. Bu itself upi has been a revolution. We need not think of farfetched conspiracies

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#138

Post by rvz »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #137
rvz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that governments can track, freeze and seize your funds at will or add savings limits to your account to get you to spend more and save less. [0] [1] Once the government does something extremely unpopular, I will only see the same thing that happened with the trucker protesters with their bank accounts getting frozen which will happen in other countries for just protesting [2] and next time, CBDCs will play a sign…

A court order in any country in the world will accomplish this goal. Bu itself upi has been a revolution. We need not think of farfetched conspiracies

> Bu itself upi has been a revolution. We need not think of farfetched conspiracies

Again. You are missing the forest for the trees.

I already substantiated the fact that a central bank has already banned the use of ATMs for the purpose of its users to be forced to adopt their CBDC. That is a fact, not a conspiracy, and there is no reason why this cannot happen in other countries that have finalized and are already deployed their own CBDCs, especially very authoritarian governments such as India or China.

The e-rupee is already being developed on UPI as E-RUPI which that IS a CBDC, controlled by the Reserve Bank of India. That isn't a conspiracy and you cannot convert it to cash either [0] as the point of it is to be totally cashless.

The end game of this 'revolution' is more about "control" than the technology and who really owns your money and what you can spend it on and how much you can save. More mass surveillance on top of savings limits isn't something to be celebrated.

[0] https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/what-is-e-rupi-d...

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#139

Post by cuteboy19 »

rvz wrote: post #138
cuteboy19 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A court order in any country in the world will accomplish this goal. Bu itself upi has been a revolution. We need not think of farfetched conspiracies

> Bu itself upi has been a revolution. We need not think of farfetched conspiracies Again. You are missing the forest for the trees. I already substantiated the fact that a central bank has already banned the use of ATMs for the purpose of its users to be forced to adopt their CBDC. That is a fact, not a conspiracy, and there is no reason why this cannot happen in other countries that have finalized and are already d…

The problem is that the Indian government has already essentially full control. Americans enjoy more freedoms so maybe the conspiracies are justified. But the Indian government already has near total control in the financial sense. From an Indian perspective this is just pure convenience, since the control aspect is present regardless

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#140

Post by cuteboy19 »

blntechie wrote: post #21
photochemsyn wrote: post #8

[flagged]

How is it different from any digital payment? Many European countries and the US has been doing digital transactions for like 2 decades now. How was it not authoritarian then but suddenly when the Asian people do it, it's a way to track everything people does and not the simplest explanation which is it makes transactions easier?

I've used both the US and Indian versions and the US version is pretty much stuck 20 years behind. It's very very bad in terms of UX and security
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