Live data from Hacker News

We will be shutting down neeva.com

neeva.com

91–100 of 301 posts

Re: We will be shutting down neeva.com

#91
they should at least open source the search engine code. whats the point in holding on to it or selling to some patent troll for pennies? maybe somebody like wikipedia foundation with moderately deep pockets will do a 'good enough' search for super cheap.

Re: We will be shutting down neeva.com

#92

The team at Neeva was A+. It is quite commendable that they managed to build a real search engine (unlike DuckDuckGo which is a shim on Bing) that was comparable to Google with such a small team. Neeva aimed to solve the problem of ads clogging the entire search results page with an ad-free search experience. My opinion of Neeva was that it solved a problem that doesn't exist. Anyone who is annoyed with ads can insta…

People are annoyed by ads, but really it is not that much of an annoyance. Neeva solves the smallest pain point ever exists.

Maybe for others, but I find them a huge annoyance, to the point that I am willingly paying Neeva, and looking for a new paid search engine.

I did not ask for ads, and I can pay, so why should I suffer them? If I want to buy something, I will search for it. I would not welcome a salesman who interrupted my dinner with a voucher for my next meal; I'd give him a wedgie.

Re: We will be shutting down neeva.com

#93
post #45

While they shut down their consumer-facing product (not the company), they will explore a B2B pivot: "Over the past year, we’ve seen the clear, pressing need to use LLMs effectively, inexpensively, safely, and responsibly. Many of the techniques we have pioneered with small models, size reduction, latency reduction, and inexpensive deployment are the elements that enterprises really want, and need, today. We are acti…

Indeed, they are purportedly in talks with Snowflake. If only they could keep the lights on and use the enterprise partnership as a subsidy.

Re: We will be shutting down neeva.com

#94
post #73

There is an all out war for search supremacy right now between two trillion dollar companies, with one having everything to win and the other everything to lose. In those circumstances a standard VC model of buying growth does not work even if you have a huge war chest, as you will be outspent no matter how big your investors are. As a founder of a startup in the same space (Kagi) we feel these challenges. We face di…

What happens in two years?

Let me have a stab at this:

We will be at the end of the AI hype cycle we are currently in. Majority of AI/search startups that exist today will no longer be around, failing to find a viable business model that has a hope of profitability, as stuffing ads inside will put them in direct trajectory of Google/Microsoft's insane resources.

Google and Microsoft situation will be much better defined. One of these companies will discover that being a platform open to developers is a strategic advantage. Ad-supported search as a model will fail to find ground in AI answers. Both companies will inject so many ads in AI chat answers to pay for the bills, that AI answers will become so intelligence insulting that even users who previously didn't mind ads (or had ways to block them) will finally start looking for ad-free search alternatives. Some ad-supported results will start having 'for entertainment purposes only' label as they will start to carry unwanted liability otherwise.

This will finally allow large scale prolifiration of a new breed of search products offering search experiences made for users instead of advertisers. Paying for search will become much more common and we will be slowly exiting the 25 years Matrix-like coma situation we are currently held in, where the expectation for the most valuable and intimate thing we do online (search and browsing) is to be free, while we accept to surrender our private information, time and attention in return.

The alignment of incentives in combination with enough resources and the newest techonlgoies will finally allow for truly amazing innovation in search, changing the way we consume information forever.

At the same time, we will start to see signs of the first public search engines (goverment subsidized), inheriting the role that public libraries had for centuries, as access to information will be deemed as a fundamental human right.

So when I think about Kagi's trajectory, it is surviving the next two years and keeping on innovating that matters. The business model is already sound and future-proof (the price will come down too).

Re: We will be shutting down neeva.com

#95
post #68

Much respect to Neeva for being in the arena. Couple thoughts: * Outside of the HN crowd, I don't think the average consumer thinks of privacy as a differentiator. * I don't know if competing on general search is the way in. I think you need a wedge, and these new companies competing on a certain vertical (like search tools for developers). I see promise here, with specialized LLMs in the backend. * The biggest searc…

> Outside of the HN crowd, I don't think the average consumer thinks of privacy as a differentiator. Frankly, I think this community is the exact same. Pretend to care about privacy, but convenience comes first. Like, I think the AI fad here is a perfect demonstration. I dunno.

I feel you! When I complained a couple of weeks ago about a high-profile chat app, that is "free" and had no business model, I got downvoted.

We like to point the finger at facebook, but we turn around and are happy to use other "free" products.

If you're not paying, you're the product.

But it seems we have the memory of a goldfish (yes, I know the goldfish memory story is false)

Re: We will be shutting down neeva.com

#96
post #86

They talk about how hard it is to convince users to switch: > From the unnecessary friction required to change default search settings, to the challenges in helping people understand the difference between a search engine and a browser, acquiring users has been really hard. How many users are we talking about? That would be great to know and since they're shutting down can they tell us? On a different page[1] they sa…

> hundreds of thousands and it can't be sustainable? How many users do they think they need to make it sustainable? What were the targets? If you assume 80% of users were 'free' and 20% were paid (which is probably pretty generous), and 'hundreds of thousands' means 200-400k users, annual revenue was maybe $5m - $10m. There are 74 employees who have listed Neeva as their employer on linkedin, so even assuming that is…

Premature scaling, then.

Re: We will be shutting down neeva.com

#97
post #27

There is an all out war for search supremacy right now between two trillion dollar companies, with one having everything to win and the other everything to lose. In those circumstances a standard VC model of buying growth does not work even if you have a huge war chest, as you will be outspent no matter how big your investors are. As a founder of a startup in the same space (Kagi) we feel these challenges. We face di…

Neeva failed because they didn’t understand distribution. Sundar became a rising star and ultimately CEO of Google because he directly managed more paid distribution and user acquisition for Google search than anyone else. Not a coincidence. Google promotes the narrative that they organically grew to dominate the search market when in fact they spent many billions of dollars on user acquisition (while also, for most…

[deleted]

Re: We will be shutting down neeva.com

#98
I used Ecosia (of planting trees fame) to find the list of failed search engines. The first result is a Wikipedia category page that lists 81 of them [1].

Fair to say that people have tried. Hard. If feels unlikely that there will ever be another search engine. That product category is basically done.

There is obviously much excitement about the potentially disruptive role of LLM. Its a powerful alternative algorithmic interface to public information but both its tenuous relation with facts and ultimately it being based on the same adtech business model means the end-result might have to be massaged and be quite a bit less disruptive than what people think or hope.

It is hard to say where true disruption will come from. Its probably not going to be called "search" but it must make search obsolete.

I don't know how widespread that feeling might be, but I'm tired "searching". I don't want my interface to the world to be a daily grind defined by adtech optimizations. We need a new interface to information. More persistent, more tailored, more user-centric, and obviously, more private. For that we need to go back to the roots of the web and maybe even before that, the roots of computer user interfaces.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Defunct_internet_sear...

Re: We will be shutting down neeva.com

#99

I hadn't heard of this website, SiliconAngle.com, before this week but they interviewed someone from the company that I work at (not for this Neeva article; for a different article), so they're actually a real news reporting organization. I was reading that article with my colleague's interview this week when I saw the Snowflake + Neeva article title in the sidebar on SiliconAngle.com https://siliconangle.com/2023/05…

The signal to noise ratio in this comment is pretty low haha. The only relevant information here is a.) the headline - "Snowflake in Talks to Buy Search Startup Neeva in AI Push" b.) that you're not sure how reputable the site is. Instead, you have included several details about how you were reading some other article, leading you to think they are reputable. Then reading (the same? another?) article about a colleagu…

If we’re talking about signal to noise, comments that do nothing but critique prose don’t help matters. But if it’s that important to you to be a bit rude to someone you think doesn’t write well, be my guest.
Post reply on HN