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Nevada approves regulations for self-driving cars

physorg.com

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Re: Nevada approves regulations for self-driving cars

#81

Post by karamazov »

xp84 wrote: post #53
karamazov wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one possibility is today's system - whoever owns the car (whether it's a private individual, a cab company, or the city) will pay for insurance, and that insurance will pay out to cover any damages. Now, what happens if there's a bug in the software, causing a lot of damage at once? Can the insurance sue the programmers to recover losses? Probably; but at the least, the victims should be paid promptly by the insuranc…

Yeah, but if insurers have to assume that liability until they can maybe recover damages (just think, the car manufacturer or software firm might not even exist anymore and the car still on the road), insurance is going to be very expensive for these things. Insurance companies aren't a charity, they're going to have to pass on those losses into the premiums.

I think one of the main issues with liability here isn't the expected loss - I would be extremely surprised if driverless cars weren't much safer than ones with drivers, at least once the major kinks are worked out - it's the correlation between accidents. Currently, accidents happen more or less at random; when controlled by software, a bunch of cars might go berserk at once, bankrupting an insurance company in a fit of bad zeroes and ones.

Re: Nevada approves regulations for self-driving cars

#82

Post by [deleted] »

xp84 wrote: post #53
karamazov wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one possibility is today's system - whoever owns the car (whether it's a private individual, a cab company, or the city) will pay for insurance, and that insurance will pay out to cover any damages. Now, what happens if there's a bug in the software, causing a lot of damage at once? Can the insurance sue the programmers to recover losses? Probably; but at the least, the victims should be paid promptly by the insuranc…

Yeah, but if insurers have to assume that liability until they can maybe recover damages (just think, the car manufacturer or software firm might not even exist anymore and the car still on the road), insurance is going to be very expensive for these things. Insurance companies aren't a charity, they're going to have to pass on those losses into the premiums.

[deleted]

Re: Nevada approves regulations for self-driving cars

#83

Post by rorrr »

ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #76
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #10

I'm very excited to here this because it solves the regulatory chicken and egg. Nevada gets a bump for being first (if things go well) and other municipalities can point to Nevada to craft their own regulations. Kudos to Nevada on this one.

This makes me want to visit Las Vegas for this reason alone. I would love to go to Vegas and for the first time in my life ride in a driverless car, convertable, top down, and enjoy the view, take pictures, and relax no matter what the traffic is like. I can see this being a MASSIVE boost to tourist cities.

I think there's only one street in the whole state that gets bad traffic.

Re: Nevada approves regulations for self-driving cars

#84

Post by saraid216 »

analyst74 wrote: post #80
inconditus wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a serious argument? One could say the same thing about: 1) The advent of modern gardening and genetically modified crops. With increased efficiency, where will the extra farmers go? 2) The advent of computers. What will happen to books? The tree cutters? The people who ship the trees to the lumber plant? I could go on and on about ANY technological advance in the last 200 years. I don't see how cars are any d…

I have similar feeling. Heck, invention of farming have caused many the hunters and gatherers to lose their jobs! I can't believe how "taking away jobs" sort of argument against technological advancement keeps showing up over and over, despite being refuted every time.

My favorite comeback is, "Think of all those poor switchboard operators that the Internet put out on the street."

Re: Nevada approves regulations for self-driving cars

#85

Post by saraid216 »

jfoutz wrote: post #72
xp84 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "no way"? I don't have any problem with your suggested models either, but see no reason why public car services couldn't coexist.

short version, politics & tragedy of the commons. Anything is possible, I just can't imagine a (US) municipality that's able to implement an entirely new public service. IIRC, community wi-fi keeps getting sued by companies that want to make money. First, none can afford it. Second the US, IMHO, is really hostile toward any sort of government service. Even if those were non-issues, you still have to solve the problem…

Seattle has a light rail system they only booted up a few years ago. They had to build a completely new set of rails everywhere to do it. I'll admit I don't know the details of its history, since I wasn't paying attention, but it's utterly possible.

Re: Nevada approves regulations for self-driving cars

#86

Post by malandrew »

huherto wrote: post #22
vasco wrote: post #4

This opens lots of cool possibilities such as eliminating the need for two cars in the family for example. You go to work, the car then comes back and drives the wife and then later in the afternoon when both parents are working it goes to school and picks up the kids!

My guess is that we will have a very efficient Taxi system. Using a Smart Phone you will be able to request a Taxi where ever you are; it will already know your favorite locations; your favorite music; it will automatically charge you; we will not need so much parking space.

I just hope that this goes into effect in a way that you would signal how many people will be traveling together and they send the appropriate sized car. Having every vehicle on the road seat 5 people and luggage when it is rarely at full capacity is extremely inefficient.

Riding alone? If so, they send a 1 person vehicle to pick you up. Riding with a friend? Two person vehicle. etc.

Re: Nevada approves regulations for self-driving cars

#87

Post by nitrogen »

joering2 wrote: post #50
nitrogen wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've yet to read Nevada's regulations, but having it be the same as for regular cars would make the most sense. In an isolated accident, the operator's insurance company is liable. If there's a fundamental flaw with the cars, the manufacturer issues a recall. It's far more likely that an inattentive human driver will smash into a driverless car than the reverse, though.

I guess what I was trying to say is that cars were designed to be driven by humans, and although there are situations where machine's fault is hard to prove [1], in reality adding additional layer of decision-making piece of hardware will make it even harder to determine who's fault was when my children, hypothetically, died in a car accident smashed by a second car. [1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-130088…

There are already rules applied by insurance companies for deciding liability in an accident. Just apply those same rules as if your over-the-top rhetorically invoked children were killed by a human driver. Retributive criminal penalties for accidents should be done away with in favor of civil action handled by insurance companies, except in cases of gross negligence or willful harm (e.g. the owner of the car instructed the computer to cause an accident).

Re: Nevada approves regulations for self-driving cars

#90

Post by ericd »

analyst74 wrote: post #80
inconditus wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a serious argument? One could say the same thing about: 1) The advent of modern gardening and genetically modified crops. With increased efficiency, where will the extra farmers go? 2) The advent of computers. What will happen to books? The tree cutters? The people who ship the trees to the lumber plant? I could go on and on about ANY technological advance in the last 200 years. I don't see how cars are any d…

I have similar feeling. Heck, invention of farming have caused many the hunters and gatherers to lose their jobs! I can't believe how "taking away jobs" sort of argument against technological advancement keeps showing up over and over, despite being refuted every time.

Eh, it might be right one of those times. People have been retreating up the skill chain as technology has become more and more advanced. If we could make a tool that does everything as well as humans for much less, society would have to change massively. It has in the past for lesser changes in technology.
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