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A digital payments revolution in India

economist.com

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Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#31

Post by SantalBlush »

FpUser wrote: post #15
photochemsyn wrote: post #8

[flagged]

>"where every transaction you ever partake in is authorised and recorded by a privately run commercial bank" Isn't it the same in The West bar cash transaction? >"If such a bank does not like an enterprise – such as Wikileaks – it can just freeze it out" Same question again. For example in Canada they did just that during tracker's convoy. I am not telling we are at their level (yet) but the direction ever country se…

I think there is a rather large class of people who are just fine with oppressive regimes, as long as it doesn't affect them. The pretense is always "reducing crime".

This includes a lot of self-proclaimed pro-freedom types, as well. They'll support an oppressive regime so long as their own freedoms aren't restricted, and the problem grows.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#32

Post by photochemsyn »

blntechie wrote: post #21
photochemsyn wrote: post #8

[flagged]

How is it different from any digital payment? Many European countries and the US has been doing digital transactions for like 2 decades now. How was it not authoritarian then but suddenly when the Asian people do it, it's a way to track everything people does and not the simplest explanation which is it makes transactions easier?

India outlawed the usage of any bill larger than the equivalent of a $US 5 (500-rupee and up) in 2016, which was intended to force people into the digital payments system. This is much more coercive than the Euro-US approach. For an overview and pro/con arguments in the global government-led war on cash:

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/021816/why-g...

It's also an attempt to collect a percentage of all transactions, which will be funneled to the usual suspects, here's what led to this:

> "NEW YORK, September 19, 2012 — The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Citi, Ford Foundation, Omidyar Network, U.N. Capital Development Fund (UNCDF), U. S. Agency for International Development (USAID), and Visa Inc. announced today the launch of the Better Than Cash Alliance. The new initiative will call on governments, the development community and the private sector to adopt the use of electronic payments..."

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#33

Post by colesantiago »

photochemsyn wrote: post #8

[flagged]

Please stop pushing these baseless conspiracies.

The Indian government has no reason to track 500 million people in India, it would be more data than they would be able to handle.

Also most people don't care enough about this, yet the RBI is thinking about adding anonymity to UPI.

"The RBI may also test anonymity, security and privacy related to digital currency, It is possible to get a legal provision to ensure anonymity."

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/gadgets-news/heres-what-...

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#34

Post by Kenji »

nish1500 wrote: post #6

When you pay a merchant $100 with your card they get about $97. When this $100 has exchanged hands 50 times only $15 remains. The bank owns the other $85. Cash is a hassle but it cuts out the middlemen. We need a unified payment system in western countries, but it's almost impossible given how much of a chokehold big banks have over our economy. Capitalism at its finest.

[dead]

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#35

Post by Mistletoe »

colesantiago wrote: post #33
photochemsyn wrote: post #8

[flagged]

Please stop pushing these baseless conspiracies. The Indian government has no reason to track 500 million people in India, it would be more data than they would be able to handle. Also most people don't care enough about this, yet the RBI is thinking about adding anonymity to UPI. "The RBI may also test anonymity, security and privacy related to digital currency, It is possible to get a legal provision to ensure anon…

I really don't think there is anything like "too much data to handle" in the year 2023. The denizens of /r/datahoarder and /r/homelab probably have enough to do it, much less a government organization.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#36

Post by signal11 »

nish1500 wrote: post #6

When you pay a merchant $100 with your card they get about $97. When this $100 has exchanged hands 50 times only $15 remains. The bank owns the other $85. Cash is a hassle but it cuts out the middlemen. We need a unified payment system in western countries, but it's almost impossible given how much of a chokehold big banks have over our economy. Capitalism at its finest.

UPI has no dispute resolution (as of now). So if you pay with UPI to someone and have a dispute, good luck. You have to approach the Indian courts to get your money back, which, given the Indian justice system, is… difficult.

By contrast, dispute resolution with cards is much easier. Also, I don’t recognise this 3% figure — not in all geographies.

Eg Europe under PSD2 has 0.3% for credit cards, and 0.2% for debit cards. In Canada, Visa and MC recently agreed to a 1% cap.

That said, I’d be very interested in seeing where the conversations around dispute resolution in UPI leads. Context: Indian banks have already begun to complain about UPI being free, and the Indian authorities had to quickly walk back a consultation around potential merchant-side charges to UPI.

I guess this tension between business, customers, and digital intermediaries is what makes payments an interesting space.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#37

Post by yutijke »

mkrishnan wrote: post #5

[flagged]

You have all these issues with cash added along with additional inconvenience of handling change, counting and making sure to keep enough of it. Most Cash on delivery options also let you pay via card or UPI on spot.

Almost every small shop vendor I know accepts UPI today without complaint.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#38

Post by AndrewKemendo »

blntechie wrote: post #21
photochemsyn wrote: post #8

[flagged]

How is it different from any digital payment? Many European countries and the US has been doing digital transactions for like 2 decades now. How was it not authoritarian then but suddenly when the Asian people do it, it's a way to track everything people does and not the simplest explanation which is it makes transactions easier?

It was then, and now that we know how easily it is to abuse anyone following that lead must tacitly accept that it will be abused similarly unless explicitly implemented not to - which isn’t the case here.

It’s just another extension of “we have to do this cause everyone else is and if we don’t we’ll be more vulnerable” which is from what I can tell the root of all evil.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#40

Post by thfuran »

Mistletoe wrote: post #35
colesantiago wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop pushing these baseless conspiracies. The Indian government has no reason to track 500 million people in India, it would be more data than they would be able to handle. Also most people don't care enough about this, yet the RBI is thinking about adding anonymity to UPI. "The RBI may also test anonymity, security and privacy related to digital currency, It is possible to get a legal provision to ensure anon…

I really don't think there is anything like "too much data to handle" in the year 2023. The denizens of /r/datahoarder and /r/homelab probably have enough to do it, much less a government organization.

Not that I particularly agree with the GP, but storing data isn't the hard part.
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