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People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

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Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#191

Post by pokstad »

thr-nrg wrote: post #37

I fully intend to kill myself eventually. The idea that I should prolong my life past the point where I get dementia, a degenerative disease, or just plain old age where I can't stand up or whipe my ass is repugnant enough that I can't understand people who want me to suffer until doctors finally stop being able to put me back together. Much better to die cheaply with a wonderful cocktail of opiates while watching a…

Not to mention the feeling of sucking resources away from those who need it to stop the inevitable. I hope I can be brave enough to say no to treatments when I am near, but it’s cheap talk.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#192

Post by denton-scratch »

atchoo wrote: post #68
niea_11 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another relevant quote by David foster wallace : The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will e…

Should people quote DFW as an authority given his suicide? Using metaphors of physical reality for psychological states can make it falsely appear more immutable that it is. It is possible to escape the burning buildings of the mind and knowing that you have agency over your ideas can be an essential part of the reframing/rethinking/challenging that can free you from suffering. Letting people believe they are in a si…

> Should people quote DFW as an authority given his suicide?

Why not?

It sounds as if you presuppose that it's always wrong to take your own life, and that anyone who thinks otherwise should be "cancelled".

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#193

Post by mschuster91 »

vanviegen wrote: post #55
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #30

This is something that I have had some personal experience with. I've known quite a few suicides, and survivors of the suicides of others. Very much a "walk a mile in a man's shoes" kind of thing. Everyone has opinions on the matter, until it hits them. Then, they have personal experience (not just an opinion). It sucks. In some cases, I can see why someone would want to end it all. In others, like this one[0], I fin…

> In others, like this one[0], I find it doubly tragic, as there are proven alternative solutions "eight years of help and 21 stints in rehab" sounds like they tried pretty hard to find a better solution. Not everyone can be cured.

> "eight years of help and 21 stints in rehab" sounds like they tried pretty hard to find a better solution.

First step towards that would be to ditch Anonymous Alcoholics and other religious cult-based "rehabs".

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#194

Post by colmvp »

harimau777 wrote: post #107

I've heard someone describe suicidal ideation as like being halfway through a multiplayer game where you are getting stomped: It's not that you want to rage quit, it's just that the outcome feels inevitable so you wish you could skip to the end. Or like turning off a ball game early when your team is down by an insurmountable points at the end of the third quarter. For at least some people, it may not be that they wa…

Exactly.

Sometimes you play a game, and you realize, shit I invested points in these attributes but upon reading strategy guides, I realize I fucked up the distribution and there's no way to reset my character. What is the solution? Abandon the character.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#195

Post by Retric »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #178
kstenerud wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChrisMarshallNY is sitting in judgment of the fellow in Holland who made use of the euthanasia laws there. Specifically: "I find it doubly tragic, as there are proven alternative solutions" (judgment) "I personally know many people that were once far worse off than that gentleman, and are now doing quite well" (justification that invalidates the man's suffering) "Lots of folks have opinions on it, but I have experien…

I don't find that to be overly invalidating or judgmental. There is a difference between saying you think someone is/was wrong, and denying their humanity.

It’s the definition of judgmental to say someone is wrong like that. You’re judging their actions as wrong.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#196

Post by hackeraccount »

David Foster Wallace's description of a person in a burning building struck me deeply. That said most people killing themselves are not in fact in a burning building; they just think they are.

I've never considered suicide but I remember being deeply unhappy as a teenager. it's not that looking back on it I can't see why but at the time I didn't know why. I'd consider my circumstances and realize that whatever problems I had were both trivial and fixable but still feel utterly miserable. The thing that frightened me was the idea that I would lose that perspective.

Now though, now I'm an old man. I know that at some point the odds are good that I'm going to be in that burning building for real and I don't know what I'll do.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#197

Post by parpfish »

thr-nrg wrote: post #37

I fully intend to kill myself eventually. The idea that I should prolong my life past the point where I get dementia, a degenerative disease, or just plain old age where I can't stand up or whipe my ass is repugnant enough that I can't understand people who want me to suffer until doctors finally stop being able to put me back together. Much better to die cheaply with a wonderful cocktail of opiates while watching a…

I’ve often thought the same thing, but I also wonder if my future-suicide is just a line of mental gymnastics I put myself through to pretend that I have complete control over my mortality.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#198

Post by hyperdimension »

cjrp wrote: post #75
probably_wrong wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sidenote: You might want to describe that link, as The Independent redirects based on location and/or device language. All I get is the front page.

Headline is “Man in the Netherlands euthanised due to his alcohol addiction”

Just to be clear, in case anyone doesn't read the article: the man chose by himself to be euthanized, not the alternate reading I first thought.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#199

Post by martindbp »

cedws wrote: post #103
martindbp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much easier said than done. I doubt you'll feel the same way when that old age approaches, just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40.

>just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40 Sorry but... it kind of is, no? You've probably got a family weighing you down so you can't travel anymore. You don't have the freedom to start new exciting ventures. You can't quit your sucky job because it supports your family. You go to parties that end at 9pm and your social gatherings consist of talking about traffic and grocery prices. You're probabl…

Believe it or not, traveling and partying gets old. Most of us have an evolutionary desire to have kids. You may not, but it can take time to manifest. Look out for feelings of hollowness, boredom or depression. Parenting may be hard, but I've never felt hollow or bored or that life has no meaning.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#200

Post by nazgulsenpai »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #166
deelly wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to be arrogant or looks like moron, but how can you know that people that you know "went through worse"? How can you measure it? I`m really curious, because all my life I live with understanding that there no way to measure other people feeling, emotions, suffering.

I think the point is that the critical differences are on the inside, not on the outside. People can go through worse experiences on the outside and recover and overcome. This points to the somewhat obvious reality that how people handle and respond to their environmental conditions is a critical factor in outcomes. Sometimes you have to fix the internal root of feelings, emotions, and suffering. You can believe the…

I think you've really hit the nail on the head here. I think substance abuse is often treated as the underlying root problem when its just a symptom of a much deeper trauma or mental health problem. The lifestyle changes (often) required to deal with the underlying problem can't be forced on the person once the stint in rehab ends. They are usually right back to their old situation with their old friends in their old routines, or they stop taking their medicines or any number of things that lead to relapse.
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