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People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

english.elpais.com

61–70 of 443 posts

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#61

This is something that I have had some personal experience with. I've known quite a few suicides, and survivors of the suicides of others. Very much a "walk a mile in a man's shoes" kind of thing. Everyone has opinions on the matter, until it hits them. Then, they have personal experience (not just an opinion). It sucks. In some cases, I can see why someone would want to end it all. In others, like this one[0], I fin…

Not everyone’s experience of pain is the same. We should keep that in mind and have empathy.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#62
post #25
post #4

"...what is it we need but more life? What does the infant need but more life? What does the bosom of his mother give him but life in abundance? What does the old man need, whose limbs are weak and whose pulse is low, but more of the life which seems ebbing from him? Weary with feebleness, he calls upon death, but in reality it is life he wants. It is but the encroaching death in him that desires death. He longs for…

Another relevant quote by David foster wallace : The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will e…

That is a powerful metaphor.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We may have not experienced prolonged pain, but we all have experienced suffering. Life itself is synonymous with suffering, for all but those few master sages who have been successful in conquering all of their cravings and reaching the utmost of equanimity. Suicide itself is virtually always a highly disordered act, that only demonstrates how deeply the person resorting to it is mired in her cravings. While some ki…

> Life itself is synonymous with suffering What? No it isn't. Just because some guy wearing orange robes told you it is, doesn't mean it's true. I have been through a lot of depression and I would never accept such a statement alone: life is no more synonymous with suffering than it is with peace and joy

You are in fact agreeing with what I said, in that we do experience peace and joy whenever we manage to lessen some of our cravings (and overcoming a state of depression is an especially clear example of this). But very few people hold freeing themselves of their spiritual fetters as their fundamental goal in life, and even fewer manage to achieve this. Thus, there is clearly a way in which life is synonymous with suffering, at least as a default state that we are all mired in from birth.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#64
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I'm getting older (mid 40s), I have a different view now than before. I've seen people die in real life, and it was horrific. Even in hospital beds with morphine drips. I don't want to die in agony, or slowly suffocating as many do. I'll end it before it goes too far. I think more people should actually go to hospitals and see how real people die, instead of the comforting movie version where the family is gathere…

That's what the opiates are for.

Opiates only help so much, unless you’re talking about using them to overdose.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Life itself is synonymous with suffering What? No it isn't. Just because some guy wearing orange robes told you it is, doesn't mean it's true. I have been through a lot of depression and I would never accept such a statement alone: life is no more synonymous with suffering than it is with peace and joy

You are in fact agreeing with what I said, in that we do experience peace and joy whenever we manage to lessen some of our cravings (and overcoming a state of depression is an especially clear example of this). But very few people hold freeing themselves of their spiritual fetters as their fundamental goal in life, and even fewer manage to achieve this. Thus, there is clearly a way in which life is synonymous with su…

Again, I totally disagree.

A vast majority of humans experience peace and joy.

A vast majority of humans also experience suffering.

Why then say "life is synonymous with suffering", and not "life is synonymous with all the manifold experiences that comprise it"?

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#66

This is something that I have had some personal experience with. I've known quite a few suicides, and survivors of the suicides of others. Very much a "walk a mile in a man's shoes" kind of thing. Everyone has opinions on the matter, until it hits them. Then, they have personal experience (not just an opinion). It sucks. In some cases, I can see why someone would want to end it all. In others, like this one[0], I fin…

> In others, like this one[0], I find it doubly tragic, as there are proven alternative solutions "eight years of help and 21 stints in rehab" sounds like they tried pretty hard to find a better solution. Not everyone can be cured.

Like I said, I personally know folks that have been clean for decades, and went through worse. I’ll be hanging out with a bunch, tonight.

Addiction is a very strange problem. Lots of folks have opinions on it, but I have experience with it.

And that’s about all I’ll say on the matter.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#67
>.

As someone that has attempted suicide in the past (some with a lot of motivation to get right, obviously failed since I am not a ghost-writer ) it kinda shocked me that this wasn't a more commonly held 'water is wet' as the reason for people to try to end their suffering.

Sure, there are some who feign their attempts for various reasons but there are those that find a way of acheiving the (at the time) welcoming bliss of quiet and silent oblivion, whatever that helds or may not hold.

To this day, I reserve the right to decide when, how or even if I ever again attempt suicide. That is my right.

I have also seen the impact that suicides have on the ones that knew and perhaps cared about the dead person so I am aware of the suffering that would echo out from my decision.

As a parent, I am also aware that the chances of a child attempting suicide following a parent doing it sky-rocket so - ouch.

But ask yourself this before judging.... just how bad would the pain in your life have to be that despite all of the above things it can still be an actual option because the suffering is so unbearable... Walk a mile in a mans Shoes as they say, YMMV.

Please note: I am not currently suicidal and am doing really well as per last shrink so High-Five etc. Just wanted to add my 0.02c to the thread.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#68
post #25
post #4

"...what is it we need but more life? What does the infant need but more life? What does the bosom of his mother give him but life in abundance? What does the old man need, whose limbs are weak and whose pulse is low, but more of the life which seems ebbing from him? Weary with feebleness, he calls upon death, but in reality it is life he wants. It is but the encroaching death in him that desires death. He longs for…

Another relevant quote by David foster wallace : The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will e…

Should people quote DFW as an authority given his suicide?

Using metaphors of physical reality for psychological states can make it falsely appear more immutable that it is. It is possible to escape the burning buildings of the mind and knowing that you have agency over your ideas can be an essential part of the reframing/rethinking/challenging that can free you from suffering.

Letting people believe they are in a situation like floor 100 of the WTC and their flesh is literally burning with no escape could be outright harmful and irresponsible for those experiencing suicidal ideation.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#69

This is something that I have had some personal experience with. I've known quite a few suicides, and survivors of the suicides of others. Very much a "walk a mile in a man's shoes" kind of thing. Everyone has opinions on the matter, until it hits them. Then, they have personal experience (not just an opinion). It sucks. In some cases, I can see why someone would want to end it all. In others, like this one[0], I fin…

Sidenote: You might want to describe that link, as The Independent redirects based on location and/or device language. All I get is the front page.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#70
Wish I could say this headline didn't hit home. Not gonna commit suicide, but I sure do fantasize about dying every waking moment. Living in constant pain for over a decade'll do that to ya… Rather be non-existent than exist in a state of such misery as to make living genuinely impossible.
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