It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022) • Hacker News Board

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#131

Post by golergka » Sat, May 20, 2023, 11:38 AM UTC

kqr wrote: post #129

golergka wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Need to pay for rent is quite literally need to pay back to other human beings for shelter, one of the most basic human needs. Why would it be a bad purpose in life?

If rent was only about paying other humans for shelter! It takes what -- a month of work? to house a person for a year. (Based on the assumption that about 8 % of the working population works in construction, building maintenance, and related areas.) I'm happy to pay a month of my wages for a year of shelter. My rent is way, way higher than that.

Never judge value of something by how much it costs to produce, it's not fair. Judge it by how much people are willing to pay for it. And in most major metropolitan areas you're paying premium for your rent to outbid all other renters that would be ready to live in such a lucrative place.

In essence, you're paying back not only to people who work in construction, but to ask the people who made this city so desired, over many generations. It takes much more than a month of work per renter to create all the value that you get from living in New York or San Francisco.

If all you need is literally just shelter regardless of location, there's plenty of places around the globe where you could rent a perfectly good apartment for $300 per month.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#132

Post by golergka » Sat, May 20, 2023, 11:43 AM UTC

re-thc wrote: post #75

golergka wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Work is where you provide value to the society, create something for other people and make world better, while simultaneously applying and improving your main set of skills. Why wouldn't you want tie your identity to something like that? Just to be clear: I have a few hobbies aside from work — I make music, DJ, paint, cook, hike sometimes. I have friends, and I'm also not a productivity maniac (I actually work in a 4…

You imply that all companies add value to society and all jobs are meaningful. That’s simply not true. Most people also don’t and won’t have the power to fix these issues even if they wanted to. Even if the company as a whole adds value there are lots of pockets of politically charged actions e.g. for promotions. Like are we doing anything meaningful to society by building 1 of those Google projects that gets killed…

> You imply that all companies add value to society and all jobs are meaningful. That’s simply not true.

Most are. Unfortunately, people often don't recognize the immense benefit for society that some industries offer.

> Like are we doing anything meaningful to society by building 1 of those Google projects that gets killed in a few months?

Yes. Hindsight is 20/20, and making bets is (often, not always) worth it even if some fail in the end.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#133

Post by ess3 » Sat, May 20, 2023, 11:43 AM UTC

jon-wood wrote: post #105

liamN wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, as a rookie developer, I find I often have little to no clue what needs to be done until I've started coding and figured out through trial and error how to implement it and what the requirements even should have been up front.

Just because I feel more people should hear this early in their career, that’s perfectly normal. I fairly routinely answer questions about how long a piece of work is going to take by saying I’m going to need n days to work out what needs to be done, after which I’ll be able to give an estimate. That sort of exploratory work is really good because you’ll end up reading relevant documentation, then actually trying to…

And on that note the ”trick” to being more experienced is being able to anticipate what’s coming up next and already have a mental model for how to solve that.

Easier said than done though

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#134

Post by zamnos » Sat, May 20, 2023, 12:05 PM UTC

sph wrote: post #126

sixstringtheory wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get you, because I’ve been down this line of thought as well. But I’ve concluded the whip hand is not even that of society, but nature itself. Everyone is driven by the biological need to eat, at the end of the day. So how did your great grandfather eat? Where did this readily available food come from? Would other people provide him with endless food while he did this philosophizing? I imagine that any society, whe…

Those are very good questions, but here's the thing. What even is the point of all this technology is the only option is a free life of prehistoric subsistence, or the drone life of a desk worker? I refuse to accept this false binary choice. We are not made into drones because the machines and industry needs constant maintenance. Society with its artificial busywork and bullshit rules is the reason one has to work 40…

Because money, when you have enough of it, works for you. So we do our best, in the system we were born into, to squirrel away as much money so as to be able to retire ASAP, while remaining as sane as can be.

Technology these days is just icing on the cake. We don't need faster computers or ChatGPT to be able to feed all of humanity. We've been there for decades.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#135

Post by GuB-42 » Sat, May 20, 2023, 12:05 PM UTC

turtledragonfly wrote: post #89

Chris_Newton wrote: post #46

I like the saying “slow is smooth and smooth is fast” as applied to software development. For all the talk of Agile processes and breaking creative work down into bite-sized chunks and prioritising collaboration and team productivity over individual contributions, ultimately our work is about thinking and fundamentally it requires that each individual doing the work understands what needs to be done. Not investing en…

> slow is smooth and smooth is fast Another phrase with similar meaning (and interesting history) is "festina lente" ("make haste slowly," in Latin). I named my company after it (: It's certainly an ancient concept. I feel like software is ultimately about humans organizing complex activities, and humans haven't changed that much in the past few millennia, even if the activities have gotten more complex and abstract.…

Another one is Blue Origin's motto: "Gradatim Ferociter", which translates to "Step by step, ferociously".

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#136

Post by JJMcJ » Sat, May 20, 2023, 12:15 PM UTC

turtledragonfly wrote: post #89

Chris_Newton wrote: post #46

I like the saying “slow is smooth and smooth is fast” as applied to software development. For all the talk of Agile processes and breaking creative work down into bite-sized chunks and prioritising collaboration and team productivity over individual contributions, ultimately our work is about thinking and fundamentally it requires that each individual doing the work understands what needs to be done. Not investing en…

> slow is smooth and smooth is fast Another phrase with similar meaning (and interesting history) is "festina lente" ("make haste slowly," in Latin). I named my company after it (: It's certainly an ancient concept. I feel like software is ultimately about humans organizing complex activities, and humans haven't changed that much in the past few millennia, even if the activities have gotten more complex and abstract.…

The famous UCLA basketball coach John Wooden used to say "be quick but never hurry".

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#137

Post by mkoubaa » Sat, May 20, 2023, 1:06 PM UTC

turtledragonfly wrote: post #89

Chris_Newton wrote: post #46

I like the saying “slow is smooth and smooth is fast” as applied to software development. For all the talk of Agile processes and breaking creative work down into bite-sized chunks and prioritising collaboration and team productivity over individual contributions, ultimately our work is about thinking and fundamentally it requires that each individual doing the work understands what needs to be done. Not investing en…

> slow is smooth and smooth is fast Another phrase with similar meaning (and interesting history) is "festina lente" ("make haste slowly," in Latin). I named my company after it (: It's certainly an ancient concept. I feel like software is ultimately about humans organizing complex activities, and humans haven't changed that much in the past few millennia, even if the activities have gotten more complex and abstract.…

My mom has a saying in Arabic that roughly translates to "he who rushes is delayed"

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#138

Post by sixstringtheory » Sat, May 20, 2023, 1:09 PM UTC

sph wrote: post #126

sixstringtheory wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get you, because I’ve been down this line of thought as well. But I’ve concluded the whip hand is not even that of society, but nature itself. Everyone is driven by the biological need to eat, at the end of the day. So how did your great grandfather eat? Where did this readily available food come from? Would other people provide him with endless food while he did this philosophizing? I imagine that any society, whe…

Those are very good questions, but here's the thing. What even is the point of all this technology is the only option is a free life of prehistoric subsistence, or the drone life of a desk worker? I refuse to accept this false binary choice. We are not made into drones because the machines and industry needs constant maintenance. Society with its artificial busywork and bullshit rules is the reason one has to work 40…

FWIW I agree with everything your saying, I think. I started out pr and only recently have had enough money to consider investing and high yield savings and bonds and all that shot, but it still gels zero sum, like inflation or the next black swan will just wipe it all out anyways if I ever try to retire and live off of what I’ve squirreled away, as sibling comment puts it.

It feels like there is no escape from work. Either you’ll spend every minute fishing for berries and hunting, or tilling sowing and reaping, or working at a desk and grocery shopping.

I truly admire the ascetics that give it all up and put their fate at the mercy of chance.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#139

Post by proper_elb » Sat, May 20, 2023, 1:17 PM UTC

liamN wrote: post #85

m3kw9 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes software engineers forget coding should be the final step, and not the main step. Defining as much as you can,80/20 before starting will save you time. Certainly there are cases where you have an idea and you dive right in and it will work out but usually that won’t work out well from my experience

For me, as a rookie developer, I find I often have little to no clue what needs to be done until I've started coding and figured out through trial and error how to implement it and what the requirements even should have been up front.

Heh, I don't think that will ever really change. What changes in my experience is your knowledge and confidence when it comes to translating requirements into maintainable technology. The real world stuff seems to be always messy. My attitude is to try to locate areas of potential unknown risk, plan how to deal with the known risk and then hack away, knowing that no matter how much time spent, the plan will be flawed. During this whole process, communication is really important (i.e. 30% feedback, where I just write comments of what I would change in the codebase and then talk about it with a collegue)

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#140

Post by btbuildem » Sat, May 20, 2023, 1:28 PM UTC

Chris_Newton wrote: post #46

I like the saying “slow is smooth and smooth is fast” as applied to software development. For all the talk of Agile processes and breaking creative work down into bite-sized chunks and prioritising collaboration and team productivity over individual contributions, ultimately our work is about thinking and fundamentally it requires that each individual doing the work understands what needs to be done. Not investing en…

One of my faves, for sure. I find the "slow is smooth" transition to "smooth is fast" especially holds true for physical tasks. Learning how to do something for the first time - carefully, slowly, awkwardly - you lay the initial record grooves of muscle memory, and if these are "right" the first time around, then you don't have bad habits to unlearn once you become proficient enough for them to matter.