Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 320 posts

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#311

Post by noduerme »

pdimitar wrote: post #90
noduerme wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and wonder what the cost of all of this will be Likely the same extended lifespan that's been prevalent in Japan over the past century of smoking, diesel and construction (along with the occasional nuclear catastrophe). Humans are apparently more ruggedized than they look on paper.

You are just one sentence away from saying "human quality of life doesn't matter, we must think of the economy". Shortness of breath is something doctors report as a more and more common symptom of city dwellers. Not reported on the news because nobody -- apparently you included -- cares, but I've been to doctors lately, and they complained that the lung and heart doctors are overbooked lately while the others have a…

Perhaps chronic illness is more prevalent now because in previous times you would have just died from those conditions. Anyway, if you're living 20 years longer on average than your grandparents, it stands to reason that your health is better for at least some of those years, since you're not dead.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#312

Post by Reason077 »

bombolo wrote: post #296
Reason077 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "London's busses are very small" Small?! The majority of London buses are double-deckers, around 11 meters in length with capacities up to 87 passengers (combined seating + standing). Perhaps not the world's largest buses, but I certainly wouldn't call them small! > "Do you have a source that they run the entire day with no charging?" Here's an old press release from when they were first introduced: "The buses are…

They are small. Most busses here have 2-3 segments. The maker's estimation and the real life often differ quite much. Is there something about real times?

London can’t use multi-segment articulated buses (“bendy buses”) due to street size and layout constraints. Basically they’re too long to fit in many places they need to go. They did actually experiment with them on a few routes some years ago, but they were withdrawn after a year or two.

But that doesn’t make London buses small, because they’re double-deckers. Instead of increasing the length, they increase the height.

In any case, bus size is a red herring when it comes to electrification. A larger bus simply gives you more space to install larger batteries, provided you don’t exceed class/axle weight limits etc. Being longer and having more axles, an articulated bus should be even easier to electrify than a double decker!

London has been operating electric buses for almost 10 years now and has a fleet of nearly 800 units. If they weren’t performing to expectations, I’m sure we would have heard about it and they wouldn’t keep buying them!

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#313

Post by johnwalkr »

darkteflon wrote: post #242
johnwalkr wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a hilariously misleading take. Are you comparing Tokyo to a place with stroads or to living on a farm? I lived in Tokyo for 6 years. Yeah there’s a lot of traffic in Tokyo but the highways are underground or elevated and it’s a pedestrian paradise At least that mother and children can walk to interesting things instead of drive everywhere. And in the neighborhood they live in, there are likely quiet streets a…

It’s not misleading at all. The best part of Tokyo’s urban design are its mixed-used neighbourhoods and extensive public transport network. As you say, that makes it great for walking and cycling. In theory. In practice, when combined with the high density, it means that people are spending a lot of time outside, unprotected, in very close proximity to the tailpipe emissions from large volumes (often 4 or 6-lanes) of…

I agree with some of your points such as trucks should switch from ICE but this will happen, you see company trucks start to advertise that they are hybrid and the buses are being switch to hydrogen buses. But Tokyo is hardly an industrial hellscape. You’re kind of describing traffic right near a major station but usually a bike commute to a major station can mostly be done on side streets, and in many areas you can do your shopping in shotengais (pedestrian only shopping street). It’s funny you mention gyms and dry cleaners because there are thousands of these in Tokyo, and small neighborhood has one. Your nearest one is unlikely to be a major station unless you live right next door to one.

I actually like the no sidewalk small streets, they have no parking and while some are sketchy they are more often like a mixed use path where pedestrians clearly have the right of way.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#314

Post by npteljes »

throwaway10563 wrote: post #176
npteljes wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. The issue in itself has little merit, because cyclists are also very quiet, even quieter than an EV, and would also send a pedestrian flying on collision.

The issue is negligible with bicycles since they can generally avoid distracted pedestrians unlike cars, and even then they are equipped with bells for that specific purpose.

I don't see how they are different in this case. Pedestrians need to watch out, whether it's a car or a bike, and with bikes, they already learned that they are silent. Cars being more quiet doesn't make them more dangerous then.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#315

Post by bombolo »

Reason077 wrote: post #312
bombolo wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are small. Most busses here have 2-3 segments. The maker's estimation and the real life often differ quite much. Is there something about real times?

London can’t use multi-segment articulated buses (“bendy buses”) due to street size and layout constraints. Basically they’re too long to fit in many places they need to go. They did actually experiment with them on a few routes some years ago, but they were withdrawn after a year or two. But that doesn’t make London buses small , because they’re double-deckers. Instead of increasing the length, they increase the hei…

Look, I've been to London and I've been to Sweden. Your busses are smaller.

Being double decker means nothing when almost nobody wants to bother to go up. But even then. They're still smaller.

> London has been operating electric buses for almost 10 years now and has a fleet of nearly 800 units. If they weren’t performing to expectations, I’m sure we would have heard about it and they wouldn’t keep buying them!

Yes, public administrations are known to run at maximum efficiency and never let any other considerations to decide what to buy.

Like here in sweden they're obviously corrupt when deciding what to buy for public transport.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#316

Post by robertlagrant »

Symbiote wrote: post #205
ericmay wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I missed it but does that article say what the mean square footage of these malls are or where they are placed? In America we only have mega malls with giant square footage and the only way to get to them is by driving. When I have been in Europe I’ve noticed very little in the way of American style malls within any city (let’s take Amsterdam as an example). I do find “malls” that might just be a few offices wi…

Taking Copenhagen, there are two large shopping centres of 115,000m² and 58,000m², plus several more of around 15,000-30,000m². The smaller ones are generally a large (for Europe) supermarket in the basement, then other shops and restaurants on the ground and upper floors. The two larger ones have commuter rail, metro, bus and cycle access, and parking for cars. I'm sure the others have some parking, but it's not obv…

Indeed - I grew up driving past it weekly as it got built, and worked in it for a summer job. The quintessential out of town shopping centre.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#317

Post by deanCommie »

caskstrength wrote: post #310
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know which Western European countries you are talking about but I’m French and the country is absolutely nothing like that.

In what sense is it "nothing like that"? France is quite socialist politically, as a poor kid you can aspire to obtain free and good quality education, get some help from the state if you are in poverty while relying on free health care. What do you think bloc countries and Soviet union were? Some kind of communist utopias? They appear to "didn't have dire poverty" because "social parasitism"[0] was a criminal offens…

Plus survivor bias.

The people who live in St. Petersburg and Moscow today are there because none of their families/ancestors were purged.

The ones who did are in Siberia, or dead.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#318

Post by po »

DrBazza wrote: post #204
po wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just walked out onto my 3rd floor balcony in Tokyo at 8:30pm and my watch says it is 38dB. I can hear some light car traffic in the distance. I live about a 20 minute walk to Shibuya crossing, so not exactly rural. I also live about 100m from Yamatedori which is a giant arterial road. I used to live in NYC. Tokyo is a very quiet city. Not all parts for sure... you can have an apartment by a train crossing or they m…

Are there trees and soft planting at street level? NYC is very plant bare by comparison to London for example. And they absorb a lot of the noise. Hard surfaces just reflect and amplify the noise.

Yes. Tokyo has a lot of shrubs and small trees planted on any available median or unused sidewalk space throughout the city. I think that helps. There is also some small effort put in to plant ivy or other climbing plants on things like highway ramps.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#319

Post by Mawr »

thsksbd wrote: post #183
Mawr wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a key relationship you're missing here. The closer a car is to humans, the slower it will drive. The slower it drives, the more important engine noise is. A car going 50km/h+ is on some sort of a highway, where noise and pollution are less relevant. It's the cars going Empirically, engine noise dominates then. The difference between ICEs and EVs passing by is staggeringly obvious.

>50 km/hr inside cities is very common nowadays, especially in N. america. I attribute it to two factors: - wide streets - modern cars' excellent isolation from the external environment. You don't hear the speed. You don't feel the speed. You feel all snuggled, safe and tight (seatbelts).

It's the stroads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM ("Stroads are Ugly, Expensive, and Dangerous (and they're everywhere) [ST05]")

Turns out when you design a road for high-speed driving, people will drive fast on it.

Post reply on HN