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It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

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81–90 of 202 posts

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#81

I like the saying “slow is smooth and smooth is fast” as applied to software development. For all the talk of Agile processes and breaking creative work down into bite-sized chunks and prioritising collaboration and team productivity over individual contributions, ultimately our work is about thinking and fundamentally it requires that each individual doing the work understands what needs to be done. Not investing en…

One problem of delaying the coding is that it takes 5 minutes to dream up requirements that could take a millennia to complete. Coding is often the hard part actually, especially in some of the large slow moving corporations where coding is often delayed by lots of requirements brainstorming.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#82

I like the saying “slow is smooth and smooth is fast” as applied to software development. For all the talk of Agile processes and breaking creative work down into bite-sized chunks and prioritising collaboration and team productivity over individual contributions, ultimately our work is about thinking and fundamentally it requires that each individual doing the work understands what needs to be done. Not investing en…

> ultimately our work is about thinking and fundamentally it requires that each individual doing the work understands what needs to be done.

Usually the individuals doing the work do understand that, but it is really hard to properly divide work and describe requirements. Why people try do divide it in even smaller tasks which increases this kind of complicated creative-writing work is beyond me.

> We realised that waterfalls that start with months of requirements capture followed by months of BDUF aren’t a great idea.

What we should have realized by now is that we never did waterfall right because it's inventor Winston Royce required it to be done TWICE for each project. Two iterations.

What this world needs is Atlassian hiring a number of work psychologists and theorists and have them streamline JIRA based on their learnings. Not in a UX "I want to create a story"-story sort of way. But in a "How do I deal with 50 tickets that are vastly different in quality?" sort of way.

They should answer questions like: "How can we make it so that the user always immediately knows whether to put this text in JIRA or confluence"?

Then Microsoft needs to hire the same people and improve text creation in outlook.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#83
I'm not sure that reducing from 40 to 32 hours would have a big impact on salaried workers unless it became standard to take an additional day off during the weekend like Friday.

It would actually be a 10% minimum pay increase for hourly workers that work at least 40 hours per week. If they already work overtime then double time could kick in.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#84

I like the saying “slow is smooth and smooth is fast” as applied to software development. For all the talk of Agile processes and breaking creative work down into bite-sized chunks and prioritising collaboration and team productivity over individual contributions, ultimately our work is about thinking and fundamentally it requires that each individual doing the work understands what needs to be done. Not investing en…

>breaking creative work down into bite-sized chunks

In my decades of experience in multiple companies doing 'agile', that's something that we've always ostensibly strived for, but in practice it almost never happens in reality. At least not as intended. Occasionally it happens, but only by pure chance.

It seems the 'agile way' is to attempt to manage a project by taking a sizable but coherent and cohesive concept/feature/requirement/design/plan, shatter it into a thousand incohesive random fragments of varying sizes (all estimated to be bite-sized, but true size unknown until they're actually done).

Then everybody grabs a few fragments and works on them, placing them somewhere more-or-less where they're hopefully supposed to be, hoping that in the end everything will come together somewhat similar to the picture on the box. Then everybody has to try to duct-tape and glue them all back together again on a herky-jerky schedule, like doing a puzzle with constant interruptions and distractions for the agile rituals.

The results aren't necessarily worse than waterfall/BDUF, but not necessarily better either. There is in truth a lot more potential to course-correct along the way. But since everyone's spastically going different distances in different directions at different speeds on as-yet-unconnected fragments of varying sizes, and no one can see the big picture, that theoretical course correction en-route is not nearly as powerful as it sounds.

I've seen some debates about shorter vs. longer sprints. The die-hard agile people tend to push for the shortest sprints possible or even shorter, leaving no time whatsoever to clarify requirements, work out integrations, or do any QA/testing. No time for thought at all, just spit out some code, any code, as fast as possible and then it's review/demo/retro time. The veterans push for longer sprints, with time to understand and coordinate, experiment and test. But that gets a lot of pushback for not being agile enough, so we usually end up somewhere in the middle. And a lot of things don't fit neatly into that timeframe.

Which in my opinion is not the worst thing, but also nowhere near as efficient or as effective as it could be if things were not broken into bite-sized chunks with arbitrary deadlines, but instead developed as parts of a cohesive whole. Whether from the foundation up (risky) or by building vertical segments and linking them together.

"Move fast and break things" indeed. That's the state of the art - breaking things as fast as possible. We could do better.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#85
post #57

I like the saying “slow is smooth and smooth is fast” as applied to software development. For all the talk of Agile processes and breaking creative work down into bite-sized chunks and prioritising collaboration and team productivity over individual contributions, ultimately our work is about thinking and fundamentally it requires that each individual doing the work understands what needs to be done. Not investing en…

Sometimes software engineers forget coding should be the final step, and not the main step. Defining as much as you can,80/20 before starting will save you time. Certainly there are cases where you have an idea and you dive right in and it will work out but usually that won’t work out well from my experience

For me, as a rookie developer, I find I often have little to no clue what needs to be done until I've started coding and figured out through trial and error how to implement it and what the requirements even should have been up front.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#86
post #80

It should be called sustainable productivity. The 4 day (4-10's are ok) work week would be a nice start. It's hopefully moving in that direction.

Lmao 4-10s would NOT be okay.

I can basically be a dead drone for ~60% of the week so that I'm recovering in the other 40%?

"The 4 day work week" means "working 32 hours per week (as opposed to 40) with no cut in pay"[0], not "cramming the 5 day work week into 4 days".

0: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-04-08/proposed...

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#87
post #81

I like the saying “slow is smooth and smooth is fast” as applied to software development. For all the talk of Agile processes and breaking creative work down into bite-sized chunks and prioritising collaboration and team productivity over individual contributions, ultimately our work is about thinking and fundamentally it requires that each individual doing the work understands what needs to be done. Not investing en…

One problem of delaying the coding is that it takes 5 minutes to dream up requirements that could take a millennia to complete. Coding is often the hard part actually, especially in some of the large slow moving corporations where coding is often delayed by lots of requirements brainstorming.

Right; but the problem is that you usually don’t really understand what you’re building until you’re halfway through building it. Specs inform code, and code also needs to inform the spec. Both because we learn more about how it will be used, and because there’s usually a clean, simple, straightforward way you can build something that won’t exactly match up to feature list in front of you.

Worse, I never seem to get those abstractions quite right until I’ve gotten them wrong a few times. If you don’t take the time to iterate and build some knowledge of the solution space, anything you make will be a bit of a buggy, fragile mess.

And I think it’s much easier (and more efficient) to do that iteration during development than spend years building something messy and then try and remake it from scratch, cleaner, later. But that means it takes more time to get to market, and that’s a really hard pill to swallow (for good reason).

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#88

I like the saying “slow is smooth and smooth is fast” as applied to software development. For all the talk of Agile processes and breaking creative work down into bite-sized chunks and prioritising collaboration and team productivity over individual contributions, ultimately our work is about thinking and fundamentally it requires that each individual doing the work understands what needs to be done. Not investing en…

MVP works when everyone on the team is seasoned. All of the members of the Agile Manifesto were seasoned. As were many of the people they tended to work with.

For the rest of us “slow is smooth” means you should work on something that is analogous to the most important functionality first, to build your ability to do that work. Then as you gain skill, tackle harder and harder problems.

Sometimes the rule of three lets you go back and fix so,e of that early poor ordering, but that doesn’t always trigger at all and sometimes triggers when you still don’t know what you’re doing. And then everything you do later is hampered by getting things wrong up front.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#89

I like the saying “slow is smooth and smooth is fast” as applied to software development. For all the talk of Agile processes and breaking creative work down into bite-sized chunks and prioritising collaboration and team productivity over individual contributions, ultimately our work is about thinking and fundamentally it requires that each individual doing the work understands what needs to be done. Not investing en…

> slow is smooth and smooth is fast

Another phrase with similar meaning (and interesting history) is "festina lente" ("make haste slowly," in Latin). I named my company after it (:

It's certainly an ancient concept. I feel like software is ultimately about humans organizing complex activities, and humans haven't changed that much in the past few millennia, even if the activities have gotten more complex and abstract.

I feel like the ones-size-fits-all approach of trying to say approach X or Y is superior (eg: scrum vs. kanban vs. waterfall, etc) is totally off the mark. Different sorts of work require different sorts of effort. Creative and full-of-unknowns work is different from assembly-line sort of work is different from maintenance work, etc.

On a meta level, I think part of the "slow is smooth..." philosophy is to take a deep breath at the beginning and think about what sorts of approaches are going to be best suited for the tasks at hand. As opposed to some mindless "scrum is in, so we'll do that for everything". Or "everyone is using NoSQL now, so we should too" or any number of other cargo-cult-y behaviors.

Festina Lente!

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is going to happen. Increases in productivity eventually lead to race to the bottom in terms of prices. Which means whoever owns the means of production are not incentivized at all to just let their workers work less. The demands of workers will stay the same, if not increase because of lowering barriers to entry on the supply side of job seekers. I wish we as a society would just accept less work…

> whoever owns the means of production This 19th rhetoric century doesn't work in modern world, especially when you're talking about creating software. To "produce" most of what HN readers do, you don't need anything more than a laptop and some cloud services — which you would need to scale up proportionally to load, and, therefore, revenue. If you need capital to hire others, it's also never have been more easily av…

You are proving my point. Advances in productivity have led to a lowering to the barrier of entry. Anyone can code now. So why,(in theory) would a business owner let their workers work less when someone else is willing to work longer hours?
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