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It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

newyorker.com

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Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#11

Post by gffrd »

gffrd wrote: post #3

This glosses over the fact that jobs are a central piece—if not _the_ central piece—of many people's identities in the States. We've lost religion and communities as things that define and provide structure and purpose, leaving us clinging to jobs. Is this good? No! It's terrible! We should fix this! However, I'm not convinced that workplace stress is a matter of hours … it may be a symptom of lack of life beyond wor…

I want to add: I 100% agree about the points on "unlimited amount of things that could be done" and "unstructured urgency."

I'm not sure if this has been found to be an effective leadership/management tactic … or if we sleepwalked our way in to this reality (a la ping pong tables), but it's not good.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#12

Post by davesque »

gffrd wrote: post #3

This glosses over the fact that jobs are a central piece—if not _the_ central piece—of many people's identities in the States. We've lost religion and communities as things that define and provide structure and purpose, leaving us clinging to jobs. Is this good? No! It's terrible! We should fix this! However, I'm not convinced that workplace stress is a matter of hours … it may be a symptom of lack of life beyond wor…

I feel like there's nothing inherently wrong with having your work take up most of your mental space. With the way we have things set up, it seems natural to dedicate most of your attention to the place that your money comes from. What's wrong is that employers in the US don't reciprocate that attention. They're happy to have you committed to them without being committed to you. The power balance has gotten way out of whack. Time for unions to make a comeback I guess.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#13

Post by petsfed »

Taywee wrote: post #7
gffrd wrote: post #3

This glosses over the fact that jobs are a central piece—if not _the_ central piece—of many people's identities in the States. We've lost religion and communities as things that define and provide structure and purpose, leaving us clinging to jobs. Is this good? No! It's terrible! We should fix this! However, I'm not convinced that workplace stress is a matter of hours … it may be a symptom of lack of life beyond wor…

Many people I've met really could use more fulfilling hobbies.

How many of those people feel like they have time to pursue more fulfilling activities?

Speaking only for myself, my more fulfilling hobbies feel like a zero-sum proposition when I factor in taking care of myself, my kids, my home, etc. What little leisure time activies I pursue are almost all pursued between the hours of 9 and 11pm, because that's the time I have.

I think the OP is right in a lot of ways, that work has replaced our other social outlets. But its also the case that just existing costs more, so time formerly spent on hobbies is now spent on basic lifestyle maintenance, and the time formerly spent on basic lifestyle maintenance is spent working, or commuting to/from work (because a lot of people can't afford to live near they work).

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#14

Post by jasonpeacock »

wonderwonder wrote: post #8

Its the lack of consecutive days off, 2 is not enough. 3 would really be a change. I bet I would accomplish just as much during the week as I do now, workplaces would just have to reduce the number of useless meetings. I spend 4 - 5 hours a day in meetings and am still expected to deliver actual code. Kill the meetings, my code generation would be through the roof. There are several things wrong with the American kno…

If you're not a presenter or decision maker, then decline the meeting and say "If there's something I need to do as a result of this meeting please let me know".

If you're still forced to attend then update the development schedule to reflect the impact of that time.

Managers can't change physics no matter how much they want - you're either writing code or attending meetings, not both.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#15

Post by greymalik »

wonderwonder wrote: post #8

Its the lack of consecutive days off, 2 is not enough. 3 would really be a change. I bet I would accomplish just as much during the week as I do now, workplaces would just have to reduce the number of useless meetings. I spend 4 - 5 hours a day in meetings and am still expected to deliver actual code. Kill the meetings, my code generation would be through the roof. There are several things wrong with the American kno…

More code isn’t better. As an engineering manager I don’t want 5x as many lines of code. I want the code you work on to be solving the right problems. Figuring out what the right problems and solutions are and making sure everyone on the team understands them is why you’re in meetings.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#16

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

wonderwonder wrote: post #8

Its the lack of consecutive days off, 2 is not enough. 3 would really be a change. I bet I would accomplish just as much during the week as I do now, workplaces would just have to reduce the number of useless meetings. I spend 4 - 5 hours a day in meetings and am still expected to deliver actual code. Kill the meetings, my code generation would be through the roof. There are several things wrong with the American kno…

>I spend 4 - 5 hours a day in meetings and am still expected to deliver actual code.

The problem is that meetings are considered work and there's no output from those other than long term planning that can't be measured day to day.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#17

Post by JohnFen »

wonderwonder wrote: post #8

Its the lack of consecutive days off, 2 is not enough. 3 would really be a change. I bet I would accomplish just as much during the week as I do now, workplaces would just have to reduce the number of useless meetings. I spend 4 - 5 hours a day in meetings and am still expected to deliver actual code. Kill the meetings, my code generation would be through the roof. There are several things wrong with the American kno…

I know that I would much prefer to work 4 10 hour days than 5 8 hour days. I want to have as many days in a row as I can that I don't have to give to an employer.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#18

Post by charlie0 »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #2

More importantly, I think, with AI automation coming in full force, we need to decouple one's working hours with their right to live a comfortable life, especially for the lower and middle class.

I don't think this is going to happen. Increases in productivity eventually lead to race to the bottom in terms of prices. Which means whoever owns the means of production are not incentivized at all to just let their workers work less. The demands of workers will stay the same, if not increase because of lowering barriers to entry on the supply side of job seekers.

I wish we as a society would just accept less work as productivity increases, but that is not the way the system is setup to work. One positive thing is that we do end up with more things as it becomes cheaper to produce them.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#19

Post by JohnFen »

greymalik wrote: post #15
wonderwonder wrote: post #8

Its the lack of consecutive days off, 2 is not enough. 3 would really be a change. I bet I would accomplish just as much during the week as I do now, workplaces would just have to reduce the number of useless meetings. I spend 4 - 5 hours a day in meetings and am still expected to deliver actual code. Kill the meetings, my code generation would be through the roof. There are several things wrong with the American kno…

More code isn’t better. As an engineering manager I don’t want 5x as many lines of code. I want the code you work on to be solving the right problems. Figuring out what the right problems and solutions are and making sure everyone on the team understands them is why you’re in meetings.

> Figuring out what the right problems and solutions are and making sure everyone on the team understands them is why you’re in meetings.

That's the idea, but does it work in practice? From what I can see, very little of that takes place in actual meetings. It takes place in emails and chats, because meetings don't allow you the time or space to really think about the issues.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#20

Post by sph »

JohnFen wrote: post #17
wonderwonder wrote: post #8

Its the lack of consecutive days off, 2 is not enough. 3 would really be a change. I bet I would accomplish just as much during the week as I do now, workplaces would just have to reduce the number of useless meetings. I spend 4 - 5 hours a day in meetings and am still expected to deliver actual code. Kill the meetings, my code generation would be through the roof. There are several things wrong with the American kno…

I know that I would much prefer to work 4 10 hour days than 5 8 hour days. I want to have as many days in a row as I can that I don't have to give to an employer.

Hear me out. 40 hours dedicated to your employer, however you slice them, is modern slavery. Why the hell are we creating all this technology to slave even more, with only energy to drool in front of Netflix and repeat the next day?

People should have the time to explore their passions, projects and families more than a couple hours every day. Not dedicate half of their waking life, their mental and physical prime, to someone else's idea for food money.

Something snapped for me the past few years, but I'd rather eat ramen, than get $250k a year and expected to be at my employer's beck and call 8am-5pm. Go be an hungry artist. Go work for yourself on the things you care about.

The fact that pretty much no one seems to see anything wrong with this terrifies me. Being a corporate drone has become the norm.

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