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AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

theatlantic.com

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Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#31

Post by grepfru_it »

nkjnlknlk wrote: post #28
Dfiesl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is definitely frustrating as a software developer. The amount of time that I've spent preparing to be graded and then subsequently graded amounts to maybe a fifth of my waking life. Then a couple of years ago I knocked out some software projects and got a job purely based on them... What a waste of life.

If it's any consolation at any sufficiently large company you'll be graded again based on arbitrary metrics b/c your manager (and their managers) have no idea what your actual impact is. The modern incarnation of school is, after all, supposed to make you into a good employee.

Had a manager tell me I needed to be more like another engineer who had more commits. I checked out his commits and it was full of repairing typos in READMEs, capitalizing SQL queries, removing comments from code.

I didn’t work for that manager much longer

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#32

Post by 908B64B197 »

Spivak wrote: post #27
hackernewds wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repeat after me: Education is not just about acquiring skillsets for jobs - Signed every technical employee that didn't apply "Reproductive cycle of frog" at their Engineering desk

Yeah, it's also for drinking, finding a husband, teaching you about variable interest rates, putting you in the social circles of people above your class and/or potential employers, and drinking. I would (and have done so) take a HS grad who taught themselves to code as a hobby over a fresh CS grad 8 days a week. If you want to be an academic and get into certain fields of research, then yeah college is for you, but…

> take a HS grad who taught themselves to code as a hobby over a fresh CS grad 8 days a week.

And he'll write you a function where the week does have 8 days!

In all seriousness, this is great if you can get a good hire at that level who is motivated and cheap enough employees that it's worth it to spend a lot of time coaching him.

But unless you're shipping low complexity CRUD apps or are in a very low cost location, it's generally much more cost-effective to hire from serious CS programs.

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#33

Post by JimtheCoder »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #26
c0m wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Prewrite essay with ChatGPT - Spend 15 minutes writing an essay structure in Google Docs (with the essay you already have, also maybe this step could be done for you by ChatGPT) - Gradually rewrite the essay you've already got in front of you, which can look like a normal writing process Congratulations, you have now not only got a legit looking edit history, but also you've rewritten what ChatGPT spat out, thwarti…

At this point, you might as well skip steps 1 and 2 and just write the damn essay.

Isn't this pretty much an argument for most GPTed writing?

Taking a GPTed piece of content, cutting out all of the useless stuff, proofreading and polishing it takes just as long as doing it by hand from the beginning?

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#34

Post by JimtheCoder »

derbOac wrote: post #11

The next phase is for AI to grade all these essays regardless of how they are produced. So you'll end up with some version of that scene from Real Genius where it's just machines talking to machines. One solution to this is very old school: in-person exams, hand-written, with no access to devices.

"...in-person exams, hand-written, with no access to devices..."

Maybe for math and subjects of that nature, but do you think your average college student could write out a 1000 word essay, or longer, without their hand falling off?

I have been typing for so long that it is physically difficult for me to do that while trying to think of what to write. Maybe I am too basic...well, probably...but I would assume the same for many other keyboard jockeys...

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#35

Post by hammyhavoc »

JimtheCoder wrote: post #33
marginalia_nu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, you might as well skip steps 1 and 2 and just write the damn essay.

Isn't this pretty much an argument for most GPTed writing? Taking a GPTed piece of content, cutting out all of the useless stuff, proofreading and polishing it takes just as long as doing it by hand from the beginning?

This assumes a knowledge on the subject they're writing about.

Spoiler: plenty of students using this won't have a clue. That's why they're using it.

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#36

Post by davee5 »

JimtheCoder wrote: post #34
derbOac wrote: post #11

The next phase is for AI to grade all these essays regardless of how they are produced. So you'll end up with some version of that scene from Real Genius where it's just machines talking to machines. One solution to this is very old school: in-person exams, hand-written, with no access to devices.

"...in-person exams, hand-written, with no access to devices..." Maybe for math and subjects of that nature, but do you think your average college student could write out a 1000 word essay, or longer, without their hand falling off? I have been typing for so long that it is physically difficult for me to do that while trying to think of what to write. Maybe I am too basic...well, probably...but I would assume the sam…

Just today I attended a 4th grade parents orientation at a Silicon Valley school where they noted they will be placing new emphasis on handwriting and cursive, specifically in order to build up legibility and hand stamina specifically for extended written exams.

The teachers are anticipating a return to hand written testing at high school and college levels in the AI-assisted present/future, so they are preparing students accordingly. (Then we visited the coding class and STEAM classrooms. It's not a Luddite reaction, more of a practical response to witnessed trends.)

The grade school pendulum has already started to swing from Chromebooks back to bluebooks.

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#37

Post by hammyhavoc »

grepfru_it wrote: post #30
Tiki wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though it's probably the best way for now, I don't think it will last. Just like there's a market for 'mouse jigglers' to keep online status in the workplace... there will be automations for sale that will take GenAI output as input, and mimic all the natural mistakes and progress a human would make in writing a document.

Funny! I made a mouse jiggler (actual hardware mouse with switch to enable/disable) 10 years ago and there was no market! I even had a full unproductivity suite, like software to send slack messages at a later time and a chair with a motor that would randomly spin it around to make people think you just stepped out.

I need more info about the chair. Lmao.

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#38

Post by JimtheCoder »

davee5 wrote: post #36
JimtheCoder wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...in-person exams, hand-written, with no access to devices..." Maybe for math and subjects of that nature, but do you think your average college student could write out a 1000 word essay, or longer, without their hand falling off? I have been typing for so long that it is physically difficult for me to do that while trying to think of what to write. Maybe I am too basic...well, probably...but I would assume the sam…

Just today I attended a 4th grade parents orientation at a Silicon Valley school where they noted they will be placing new emphasis on handwriting and cursive, specifically in order to build up legibility and hand stamina specifically for extended written exams. The teachers are anticipating a return to hand written testing at high school and college levels in the AI-assisted present/future, so they are preparing stu…

This is good news...

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#39

Post by randcraw »

c0m wrote: post #24
jdlyga wrote: post #2

The best way, so far, to prove that it's not written by ChatGPT is to show history using Google Docs. It's probably going to be the new "show your work" that math teachers went through during the rise of calculators.

- Prewrite essay with ChatGPT - Spend 15 minutes writing an essay structure in Google Docs (with the essay you already have, also maybe this step could be done for you by ChatGPT) - Gradually rewrite the essay you've already got in front of you, which can look like a normal writing process Congratulations, you have now not only got a legit looking edit history, but also you've rewritten what ChatGPT spat out, thwarti…

Easier still:

- Prewrite essay with ChatGPT.

- Ask ChatGPT to rewrite the essay in the voice of someone 5 years younger.

- Submit the juvenile copy as your rough draft.

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#40

Post by spondylosaurus »

jl2718 wrote: post #14

The AI-generated essay will be the new baseline. If you can’t argue beyond what an AI can or will generate, you haven’t broken through the NPC threshold.

If that means no more papers whose thesis statement is "the theme of Hamlet is revenge" I'm all for it.
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