AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined • Hacker News Board

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#21

Post by derbOac » Fri, May 19, 2023, 6:57 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #18

derbOac wrote: post #11

The next phase is for AI to grade all these essays regardless of how they are produced. So you'll end up with some version of that scene from Real Genius where it's just machines talking to machines. One solution to this is very old school: in-person exams, hand-written, with no access to devices.

AI grading has been in use for years. https://www.npr.org/2018/06/30/624373367/more-states-opting-...

I know; I've done research on it. But I don't know it's had the sort of widespread on-the-fly use in individual college courses in the same way as its application in large-scale standardized tests.

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#22

Post by nashashmi » Fri, May 19, 2023, 6:59 PM UTC

pyinstallwoes wrote: post #20

jdlyga wrote: post #2

The best way, so far, to prove that it's not written by ChatGPT is to show history using Google Docs. It's probably going to be the new "show your work" that math teachers went through during the rise of calculators.

Just have the client spit out what ChatGPT does and overwrite it over time. I mean naturally you'd edit it too. Seems easy to hack that.

But would it seem worthwhile?

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#23

Post by Dfiesl » Fri, May 19, 2023, 7:10 PM UTC

jokethrowaway wrote: post #13

Grading is irrelevant to work performance, exactly like any other metric we try to measure when evaluating software developers' performance. The only sane alternative is demonstrating skills through completing projects. Hopefully we move towards more than that

Is definitely frustrating as a software developer. The amount of time that I've spent preparing to be graded and then subsequently graded amounts to maybe a fifth of my waking life. Then a couple of years ago I knocked out some software projects and got a job purely based on them... What a waste of life.

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#24

Post by c0m » Fri, May 19, 2023, 7:15 PM UTC

jdlyga wrote: post #2

The best way, so far, to prove that it's not written by ChatGPT is to show history using Google Docs. It's probably going to be the new "show your work" that math teachers went through during the rise of calculators.

- Prewrite essay with ChatGPT

- Spend 15 minutes writing an essay structure in Google Docs (with the essay you already have, also maybe this step could be done for you by ChatGPT)

- Gradually rewrite the essay you've already got in front of you, which can look like a normal writing process

Congratulations, you have now not only got a legit looking edit history, but also you've rewritten what ChatGPT spat out, thwarting other potential methods of detection.

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#25

Post by Qweiuu » Fri, May 19, 2023, 7:23 PM UTC

jdlyga wrote: post #2

The best way, so far, to prove that it's not written by ChatGPT is to show history using Google Docs. It's probably going to be the new "show your work" that math teachers went through during the rise of calculators.

You are playing GAN against 100.000 people and computers.

You never win a game of GAN

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#26

Post by marginalia_nu » Fri, May 19, 2023, 7:23 PM UTC

c0m wrote: post #24

jdlyga wrote: post #2

The best way, so far, to prove that it's not written by ChatGPT is to show history using Google Docs. It's probably going to be the new "show your work" that math teachers went through during the rise of calculators.

- Prewrite essay with ChatGPT - Spend 15 minutes writing an essay structure in Google Docs (with the essay you already have, also maybe this step could be done for you by ChatGPT) - Gradually rewrite the essay you've already got in front of you, which can look like a normal writing process Congratulations, you have now not only got a legit looking edit history, but also you've rewritten what ChatGPT spat out, thwarti…

At this point, you might as well skip steps 1 and 2 and just write the damn essay.

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#27

Post by Spivak » Fri, May 19, 2023, 7:30 PM UTC

hackernewds wrote: post #19

kazinator wrote: post #5

This whole thing is moot because precisely those subjects in which AI is most applicable are the ones whose graduates will most likely have their jobs taken away by AI anyway. Like, at least let AI earn you the grades while you're in school, if it's going to put you out of a job once you're out, ya know?

Repeat after me: Education is not just about acquiring skillsets for jobs - Signed every technical employee that didn't apply "Reproductive cycle of frog" at their Engineering desk

Yeah, it's also for drinking, finding a husband, teaching you about variable interest rates, putting you in the social circles of people above your class and/or potential employers, and drinking.

I would (and have done so) take a HS grad who taught themselves to code as a hobby over a fresh CS grad 8 days a week. If you want to be an academic and get into certain fields of research, then yeah college is for you, but any profession where education matters does their own testing a certification because they too know that undergrad is a joke.

And to get out ahead of it, I graduated with two degrees, a 3.9 GPA, and no debt so I'm someone who has every reason to gas up college as totally worth it because I benefited from the faux prestige.

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#28

Post by nkjnlknlk » Fri, May 19, 2023, 7:32 PM UTC

Dfiesl wrote: post #23

jokethrowaway wrote: post #13

Grading is irrelevant to work performance, exactly like any other metric we try to measure when evaluating software developers' performance. The only sane alternative is demonstrating skills through completing projects. Hopefully we move towards more than that

Is definitely frustrating as a software developer. The amount of time that I've spent preparing to be graded and then subsequently graded amounts to maybe a fifth of my waking life. Then a couple of years ago I knocked out some software projects and got a job purely based on them... What a waste of life.

If it's any consolation at any sufficiently large company you'll be graded again based on arbitrary metrics b/c your manager (and their managers) have no idea what your actual impact is.

The modern incarnation of school is, after all, supposed to make you into a good employee.

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#29

Post by melagonster » Fri, May 19, 2023, 7:33 PM UTC

marginalia_nu wrote: post #26

c0m wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Prewrite essay with ChatGPT - Spend 15 minutes writing an essay structure in Google Docs (with the essay you already have, also maybe this step could be done for you by ChatGPT) - Gradually rewrite the essay you've already got in front of you, which can look like a normal writing process Congratulations, you have now not only got a legit looking edit history, but also you've rewritten what ChatGPT spat out, thwarti…

At this point, you might as well skip steps 1 and 2 and just write the damn essay.

if this process occurred from student' childhood, this is the only way to write some formal things.

Re: AI ‘Cheating’ Is More Bewildering Than Professors Imagined

#30

Post by grepfru_it » Fri, May 19, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

Tiki wrote: post #15

jdlyga wrote: post #2

The best way, so far, to prove that it's not written by ChatGPT is to show history using Google Docs. It's probably going to be the new "show your work" that math teachers went through during the rise of calculators.

Though it's probably the best way for now, I don't think it will last. Just like there's a market for 'mouse jigglers' to keep online status in the workplace... there will be automations for sale that will take GenAI output as input, and mimic all the natural mistakes and progress a human would make in writing a document.

Funny! I made a mouse jiggler (actual hardware mouse with switch to enable/disable) 10 years ago and there was no market! I even had a full unproductivity suite, like software to send slack messages at a later time and a chair with a motor that would randomly spin it around to make people think you just stepped out.