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Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

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Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#251

Post by xienze »

kqr wrote: post #77
est31 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is EU regulation 2017/1576 that requires to make noises if driving at low speeds. https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/news/electric-and... I'm an EV fan, but lower noise levels makes them more dangerous, not less, at least to the people they can potentially hit (of course for people living next to roads, noise is more hazardous from a more general health point of view). Cars are killer machines and stuff…

You're right, but it's still weird. It's asking the outside people to shoulder the responsibility of avoiding the killer machine. I'd rather have quiet cars and much harsher crackdowns on drivers that use them in ways that jeopardy the lives of others. There are many things drivers can do to reduce the hazard, such as slowing down, buying smaller vehicles, using cars that don't isolate outside noise, only driving whe…

> It's asking the outside people to shoulder the responsibility of avoiding the killer machine.

It's adding a layer of redundancy. The driver needs to pay attention but should that fail, hopefully the car noise will alert the pedestrian, who should also be aware that a car is nearby.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#252

Post by coev »

tikhonj wrote: post #178
michaelteter wrote: post #84

There are two issues here. One is that we need to come up with comprehensive solutions for reducing the number of vehicles in use. But that’s a difficult problem where solutions take decades and must be tailored to each scenario. But what can be addressed now is the engine and exhaust sound levels. Some vehicles are loud because their engines are working hard, but many vehicles are loud because people (boys) want the…

My experience living in a relatively quiet area has been that the loudest vehicles, by far, are garbage trucks followed by other kinds of trucks. But it is much harder to do something about that because they serve an economic purpose and it would presumably be very expensive to make them quieter. It's a lot easier to blame people with gratuitously loud cars and motorcycles because they don't have a real excuse, even…

Garbage trucks are on any given street for maybe 10 minutes a week and they save you a trip to the dump. Reducing the noise on them would be great but this is not nearly the most impactful way to solve the city noise problem.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#253

Post by david-gpu »

phpisthebest wrote: post #193
david-gpu wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also I prefer not be limited in my shopping choices just to the single shop that happens to be in my building or on my block... And I prefer not living with constant traffic noise and at risk of being run over every time I step outside. I prefer biking with my kid to his school, but we can't because the traffic makes it a suicidal idea. I also prefer to listen to birds when I walk to the shops nearby, but the traff…

Yes here we are, Here we are were the majority have self selected to live in the way I prefer, but people want to use government violence (i.e regulation) to force people to live in a manner they did not self select. I have no problems if people want to create something voluntarily that is walkable, I have massive problems with using government to do it.

> I prefer, but people want to use government violence (i.e regulation) to force people to live in a manner they did not self select. [...] I have massive problems with using government to do it.

We are on the same page, then. In most of American and Canadian cities municipal zoning bylaws force the construction of single-family homes and disallow the construction of mixed-use moderate density buildings.

With that in mind, one may begin to wonder if the reason we don't see more walkable neighborhoods is because they are currently illegal to build, not because there is no demand for them. And, indeed, there is plenty of demand for them.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#254

Post by acdha »

mk67 wrote: post #225
acdha wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d also add the enormous expense: if you’re rich, sure, cars aren’t a concern but even middle class people are usually worried about payments & repairs, and loss of a reliable car is one of the most common ways people fall out of the middle class, not to mention everyone starting retirement with so much less money. There are good parts, of course, but I think it’s very reasonable to ask whether we get a good value f…

Wouldn't really call it middle class if a lower five digit sum is a major inconvenience. Probably the problem is more that there is not much middle class left nowadays and most people are lower class.

The American median income is around $45-50k so pretty much by definition any 5 digit expense is a big deal for the middle class. More importantly, however, you have to look at the amount of money people have leftover for unexpected expenses – a ton of people are living close to paycheck to paycheck even if they have median or better household income. They’re middle class by any common definition but fragile.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#255

Post by jaclaz »

Gigachad wrote: post #152
hnuser847 wrote: post #2

I definitely felt this when walking through the city center of Florence last fall. The streets and piazzas were jammed with thousands of tourists but it felt remarkably quiet, due to the almost complete absence of cars.

The noise of actual people on the street is also quite pleasant. Talking, laughing, footsteps, etc. it positively adds to the atmosphere rather then detract from it.

I guess that depends on opinions, there is a committee of citizens in Florence named "Ma noi quando si dorme?" (that can be roughly translated to "But when are we going to sleep?" ) by residents that protest against the noise by customers of bars and similar that talk, laugh, sing, scream, etc. in some streets of the center until well after 2 AM.

It is news of these days that, beginning in May there will be 24 "stewards" on fridays and saturday nights to help "educating" the customers.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#256

Post by api_or_ipa »

I used to live on the 8th floor of a highrise with a medium sized arterial road below. Car engines are annoying, but far, far worse was when it rained, the sound of cars plowing through puddles. Being the rainy PNW, this sound was ever-present and very annoying. EVs might solve the car engine problem but I don't see them solving the puddle problem.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#257

Post by davidthewatson »

The paradox for me is that my noise experience has been inversely correlated to the environment for decades: the more rural, the more noise; the more urban, the less noise. Looked at another way: noise was inversely correlated to walk score, the higher the score the lower the noise, the lower the score the higher the noise. Intuitively that makes sense since we can infer that walk score means all else being equal, more people are in quiet transit options.

Suburban has been between the two extremes, but the noise leans toward the rural end of the spectrum, though Harleys aren't the cause, car dependence and lack of transit options are as predictable from the walk score.

Reasons are easy to state: Harleys and the quiet but unusual confines of a single floor flat in the city (at least in the United States).

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#258

Post by u017937387 »

enlyth wrote: post #5

The author in the video kind of dismisses EVs saying that at speed there's not much of a difference, but one of the things I definitely noticed when visiting Bergen was how damn quiet the city was because almost everyone was driving EVs. It had a noticeably positive effect on me.

[flagged]

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#259

Post by bpye »

toxik wrote: post #35
zo1 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget motorcycles.

This is the one that gets me. It would be trivial to regulate, and the inspections already happen. But no, straight pipe hot rod bikes are somehow a human necessity.

At least where I am (BC) emissions are regulated, so straight piped cars and bikes are already illegal. The issue is that there are no mandatory inspections for non-commercial vehicles, so if you don’t get pulled over you’re never going to get stopped.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#260

Post by 331c8c71 »

david-gpu wrote: post #249
331c8c71 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's nothing about economic growth and material wealth that requires this to happen. Something else must have changed. Agreed. When I was a kid we used to just roam outside (let alone walking to school and extracurriculars by ourselves). That's no longer normal at exactly the same places even if objectively it is safer now. The perception of risk must be one thing that has changed but I think there's more to it.…

> That's no longer normal at exactly the same places even if objectively it is safer now Safer in terms of having less crime, perhaps? What about the danger of being run over by a car on the way to those places? Nowadays we typically have more cars, with lower visibility, driving faster than before because the roads are wider, straighter and with more lanes. It is an environment that is plainly hostile to pedestrians…

Probably... Haven't witnessed or heard of any pedestrian/car accidents in my home town to facilitate such a change.

On the other hand, biking would be definitely less pleasurable and more dangerous for smaller kids now. Even as adult I don't enjoy biking with many cars around.

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