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Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

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Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#241

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

epolanski wrote: post #111
david-gpu wrote: post #17

I live in a high-rise condo next to a six-lane stroad that was even showcased on this YouTube channel and the 24/7 traffic noise is annoying, particularly when you want to go for a walk and can't even hold a conversation. This didn't happen in the places where I lived back in Europe because zoning laws were different. Instead of the sprawl of freehold single family homes separate from a dense urban core, these much q…

Say what you want about soviet city planning but it was damn efficient. I have never ever seen a soviet-era suburb which didn't have 4 to 12 story buildings with parks and aisles all around them and all kind of services being at a 5 minutes walking distance top (church, shops, post office, elementary and middle school, etc).[1] Literally under every building you would find people quietly enjoying their evening on the…

This is something I heard a lot from people from the former GDR. Usually, they start by acknowledging the bad things: the limited opportunity to travel, the surveillance. But then, they tell you about what they miss. Knowing their neighbours, a certain idea of fraternity and togetherness in hardship, the feeling that even as a poor kid you could achieve something and be useful to society as a whole, the absence of really dire poverty.

I think people especially in the US are quick to dismiss the Soviet Republics while ignoring what they did get right and the alienating parts of their own culture.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#242

Post by darkteflon »

johnwalkr wrote: post #203
darkteflon wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this take about Japan all the time and do not understand it. No offence, but have you spent any time in Japan? Rural areas might be quiet for sheer low population density, but the cities are disgusting. PM2.5 levels in Tokyo yesterday were like 6x WHO limits and absolutely no one on the local news was talking about it. Every morning I see pregnant and new mothers with infants or small children squeezing between…

This is a hilariously misleading take. Are you comparing Tokyo to a place with stroads or to living on a farm? I lived in Tokyo for 6 years. Yeah there’s a lot of traffic in Tokyo but the highways are underground or elevated and it’s a pedestrian paradise At least that mother and children can walk to interesting things instead of drive everywhere. And in the neighborhood they live in, there are likely quiet streets a…

It’s not misleading at all. The best part of Tokyo’s urban design are its mixed-used neighbourhoods and extensive public transport network. As you say, that makes it great for walking and cycling. In theory.

In practice, when combined with the high density, it means that people are spending a lot of time outside, unprotected, in very close proximity to the tailpipe emissions from large volumes (often 4 or 6-lanes) of gasoline and diesel-burning trucks and cars. Often with narrow sidewalks or no sidewalks at all. They shop along the main road, their kids’ school is on the main road, their workplaces, gyms, dry cleaners, station, etc.

Lol at the people in this thread chiming in from their 3rd floor balconies in Moto-Azabu Hills. The absolute vast majority of people living in Tokyo are breathing trash air day in day out.

It’s reprehensible. They need to ban diesel trucks immediately, and they need to actively encourage people to switch to EVs.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#243

Post by yamtaddle »

phpisthebest wrote: post #193
david-gpu wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also I prefer not be limited in my shopping choices just to the single shop that happens to be in my building or on my block... And I prefer not living with constant traffic noise and at risk of being run over every time I step outside. I prefer biking with my kid to his school, but we can't because the traffic makes it a suicidal idea. I also prefer to listen to birds when I walk to the shops nearby, but the traff…

Yes here we are, Here we are were the majority have self selected to live in the way I prefer, but people want to use government violence (i.e regulation) to force people to live in a manner they did not self select. I have no problems if people want to create something voluntarily that is walkable, I have massive problems with using government to do it.

> Here we are were the majority have self selected to live in the way I prefer,

Not everyone who lives the "way you prefer" wants it.

It's just the only place that decent-or-better public schools are, in a lot of US cities.

Everything else about the 'burbs sucks. Worst parts of country and city living, none of the benefits of either. Terrible.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#244

Post by Reason077 »

bombolo wrote: post #218
Reason077 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Of course they have to stop ~20 minutes to recharge instead of just turning back." London's electric buses (mostly UK-built bus bodies with BYD drivetrains and batteries) have large enough battery packs for them to run all day without charging. They get recharged overnight, when electricity is cheap, while parked in the bus depots. As of March, London had 785 fully electric buses in service, out of a total fleet o…

London's busses are very small. Do you have a source that they run the entire day with no charging?

> "London's busses are very small"

Small?! The majority of London buses are double-deckers, around 11 meters in length with capacities up to 87 passengers (combined seating + standing). Perhaps not the world's largest buses, but I certainly wouldn't call them small!

> "Do you have a source that they run the entire day with no charging?"

Here's an old press release from when they were first introduced: "The buses are equipped with BYD-designed and built Iron-Phosphate batteries, delivering 345 kWh of power ... The batteries can power the bus for over 24 hours and up to 190 miles of typical urban driving on the service routes with a single daily recharging requiring only four hours."

https://en.byd.com/news/transport-for-london-launches-the-fi...

(The reality is that on many central London bus routes, there just isn't anywhere where they could stop for an extended period for recharging. But as more electric buses expand to suburban routes, maybe that will be less of an issue)

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#245

Post by dr_petes »

michaelteter wrote: post #84

There are two issues here. One is that we need to come up with comprehensive solutions for reducing the number of vehicles in use. But that’s a difficult problem where solutions take decades and must be tailored to each scenario. But what can be addressed now is the engine and exhaust sound levels. Some vehicles are loud because their engines are working hard, but many vehicles are loud because people (boys) want the…

To your first point, I think it’s a mistake to assume that the current situation is the natural result of our cities, where as it’s actually policy decisions that add up over time.

If 50 years ago, cities prioritized travel methods for walking and biking, the noise pollution this video describes wouldn’t be so prevalent.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#246

Post by ericmay »

ericmay wrote: post #166
michaelteter wrote: post #84

There are two issues here. One is that we need to come up with comprehensive solutions for reducing the number of vehicles in use. But that’s a difficult problem where solutions take decades and must be tailored to each scenario. But what can be addressed now is the engine and exhaust sound levels. Some vehicles are loud because their engines are working hard, but many vehicles are loud because people (boys) want the…

Related to noise pollution a good framework for thinking about cars and car traffic is comparing them to industrial activity. A 6 lane or 8 lane highway is like a big chemical plant. You wouldn’t want that in your neighborhood or near your city. It’s a big industrial site. A tree-lined road with protected bike lanes, sidewalks, cars parked on either side, and a 20 mph speed limit is like a nice coffee shop just a few…

If you want to further the analogy you can think of those of us screaming about car-only infrastructure and the negative effects caused by it as the same people screaming about pollution during the industrial revolution.

The long march of time will remove car-only infrastructure because it can't outlast economic physics, but we should do it faster to limit the damage and save hydrocarbons for spaceships and medicine and stuff.

Unfortunately we won't have our Triangle Shirt Factory or smog prevalence to really put the problem in your face. If we put some sort of coloring in car exhaust so you had to see it we'd ban cars within a year.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#247

Post by darkteflon »

david-gpu wrote: post #233
darkteflon wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re absolutely right. I’ve lived here for 20 years but have no fucking idea what I’m talking about. What was I thinking. Carry on.

On a post discussing car noise pollution in North America you have spent hours and dozen of comments whinging about how terrible air pollution is in Tokyo and dismissing anybody presenting you with data. Do you have anything to contribute to the topic?

Hey man, I was responding to a comment that brought up Tokyo. I could talk about Tokyo air quality all day, yeah. Because I live with it. If you don’t want to talk about that, just stop talking about it maybe?

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#248

Post by tristor »

uoaei wrote: post #238
tristor wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, I am speaking for pretty much all “car guys” to say we also hate popcorn tunes and stance too. These are both (inter-related) trends only popular with the very young and very low class promulgated via Tik Tok. No “car guy” is impressed by a busted up 20 year old BMW 318i with a popcorn tune, straight pipes, and rep wheels, but there’s a lot of barely 20-somethings who think it’s cool yet don’t know the f…

I don't think they're talking about the tuners, but rather the good ol' boys and their trukks, rolling coal being an extreme example.

I'm pretty sure they're talking about popcorn tunes (also called "crackle tunes") which intentionally makes your car backfire so it sounds like a poor man's version of rally anti-lag, but in the process destroys the catalytic converters, fuel efficiency, power output, and is generally obnoxious. Rolling coal isn't even a thing in Europe, and the folks I was responding to sound like they're in Europe.

There's a bunch of various things "kids these days are doing" because of social media and their craving of attention, that are frankly completely stupid and objectively bad, but get them attention due to being obnoxious. Carolina squat, stance, and popcorn tunes all fall into this category. Stance kids in particular /know/ they're doing something objectively stupid and dangerous and respond by putting "locally hated" stickers on their car. There's a lot of kids, especially in the West, without good family life and too much exposure to social media who will do anything, no matter how obnoxious or objectively wrong, to get attention, even negative attention. This is just how it extends to cars. We all hope they grow out of it, because otherwise they're destined to be wastes of the oxygen they're breathing.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#249

Post by david-gpu »

331c8c71 wrote: post #228
prottog wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economical progress is certainly no guarantee of happiness, and hardships do often foster a sense of camaraderie that brings people closer together. Soldiers who have been in combat, for example, find that they miss the foxhole, even though getting shot at is no one's idea of a happy time. > People don't really enjoy their evenings chatting to each other because benches have been removed and kid playgrounds have been…

> There's nothing about economic growth and material wealth that requires this to happen. Something else must have changed. Agreed. When I was a kid we used to just roam outside (let alone walking to school and extracurriculars by ourselves). That's no longer normal at exactly the same places even if objectively it is safer now. The perception of risk must be one thing that has changed but I think there's more to it.…

> That's no longer normal at exactly the same places even if objectively it is safer now

Safer in terms of having less crime, perhaps?

What about the danger of being run over by a car on the way to those places? Nowadays we typically have more cars, with lower visibility, driving faster than before because the roads are wider, straighter and with more lanes. It is an environment that is plainly hostile to pedestrians and children in particular.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#250

Post by Xylakant »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #220
Xylakant wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What this tells me is that the internal combustion engine is a bad idea everywhere but especially in a dense urban core. Engine noise only dominates up to roughly 20mph, at higher speeds the tire noise is the dominating component until roughly 100mph where wind becomes the dominant. So this: > The solution to road noise doesn’t have to be a dramatic rezoning and a reversion to Europe everywhere. It could be to make…

This is about the urban core. Speed in the urban core in every US city I know is 20.

I don’t think that average speed is the relevant measure here. Top speeds would still be noisy.

But even at average speed you’d see no noise reduction from electric cars since 20mph is the point where tires are as loud as the engine. So the average would need to go down.

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