Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 320 posts

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#161

Post by ericmay »

robertlagrant wrote: post #69
david-gpu wrote: post #17

I live in a high-rise condo next to a six-lane stroad that was even showcased on this YouTube channel and the 24/7 traffic noise is annoying, particularly when you want to go for a walk and can't even hold a conversation. This didn't happen in the places where I lived back in Europe because zoning laws were different. Instead of the sprawl of freehold single family homes separate from a dense urban core, these much q…

> This means people can live within walking distance to where they work and where they shop This is less common than you think. There are 8500 or so malls in Europe[0]. I happen to live near an (expensive) shop, which I use because I like walking places, but I also know I have a tech salary that lets me buy a place that's in walking distance of a shop, and afford to shop in it regularly. Also, plenty of people don't…

Maybe I missed it but does that article say what the mean square footage of these malls are or where they are placed?

In America we only have mega malls with giant square footage and the only way to get to them is by driving.

When I have been in Europe I’ve noticed very little in the way of American style malls within any city (let’s take Amsterdam as an example). I do find “malls” that might just be a few offices with street level retail selling Jack Wolfskin products and maybe a Starbucks but they aren’t all that distinguishable from most of the rest of the city.

In Columbus where I live the metro has a population of around 2.2 million (all drivers) and we have two malls that are still operating (I think we’ve had maybe 5 at one point?) and one is Polaris Fashion Place at 1.2 million square feet and the other is Easton Town Center which is 1.6 million square feet. That’s probably average for a city in America.

So for an average city in America I’ve got 0 walking or transit to the mall - 100% only drivers, and I’m at nearly 3 million square feet which is like top 10 easy on that list too.

Europe has malls. Sure. The question is does Europe have malls in the same way America does, and I’m not convinced the answer is yes, which is what really matters. Well, not me being convinced so much as all the associated driving.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#163

Post by ericmay »

bena wrote: post #154
Gwypaas wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I ever go to mall? It is an awful experience. At most, when it would be too cumbersome to bring on public transport, I rent a car.

Not a "shopping mall" mall, but an old-school open area with shops and restaurants. I don't know if you watch Ted Lasso, but Lasso and Beard live right next to a mall and frequently walk through it or meet up at a bench there.

We don’t build old school open areas with shops and restaurants that you can walk to!!

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#164

Post by numpad0 »

darkteflon wrote: post #85
rtpg wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PM2.5 levels in Tokyo yesterday were like 6x WHO limits and absolutely no one on the local news was talking about it What are you talking about? Localities sent a smog alert, made announcements on the speaker, and there was a whole thing. It was a particularly hot day as well. I don’t have that many reference points to be fair, but almost every time I’ve checked general air quality (at least according to the first…

It’s been like this for days, it will continue into next week. We had no announcements where I am, none of the news broadcasts I checked (and I checked a few) mentioned it. The Tokyo metro site wouldn’t even load on my phone. Glad you got a heads up. Don’t really care what Paris is like, tbh. Shit air is shit air. Saying it’s shitter somewhere else isn’t super compelling. The whole point of my original comment was th…

So where you're mistaken, or are not in accordance with the official narrative, is that the pollution must have to do with severe local negligence. Here[1] is simulation results that suggest a different story.

1: https://pm25.jp/m/230519/011/

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#165

Post by [deleted] »

djaychela wrote: post #136
wildrhythms wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same logic created the "Loud pipes save lives!" mantra among motorcyclists despite the fact that there's no evidence to support this. By the time a car driver hears the bike it's already too late to avoid an accident.

Anecdata here - I have had quiet and loud bikes, and the loud ones mean you're much less likely to get 'lane changed' on. Drivers are generally pretty ignorant of what's around them, and it's always the biker that pays the price if there is an accident. I generally don't put myself in harm's way, but there are always times when you have to be in a danger zone. And a loud bike is noticed more, in my experience.

[deleted]

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#166

Post by ericmay »

michaelteter wrote: post #84

There are two issues here. One is that we need to come up with comprehensive solutions for reducing the number of vehicles in use. But that’s a difficult problem where solutions take decades and must be tailored to each scenario. But what can be addressed now is the engine and exhaust sound levels. Some vehicles are loud because their engines are working hard, but many vehicles are loud because people (boys) want the…

Related to noise pollution a good framework for thinking about cars and car traffic is comparing them to industrial activity.

A 6 lane or 8 lane highway is like a big chemical plant. You wouldn’t want that in your neighborhood or near your city. It’s a big industrial site.

A tree-lined road with protected bike lanes, sidewalks, cars parked on either side, and a 20 mph speed limit is like a nice coffee shop just a few blocks from your house. It’s like a small business. You do want those in your neighborhood.

I’d also like to add, I just moved back to a neighborhood in the city and it’s much quieter to me than the suburbs. What you forget is that in the suburbs people are mowing and lead blowing and doing all those activities and they add a lot of noise. Didn’t notice as much when working in the office but noticed it much more when working from home. Now that I’m back in the city the car traffic noise is somewhat the same maybe a little worse, but the landscaping noise is far less prevalent and then I’m left with really not a lot of noise.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#167

Post by Reason077 »

bombolo wrote: post #89
Reason077 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At highway speeds there might not be much difference in noise levels, but there's a huge difference on city streets. In cities in with particularly noisy vehicles such as motorcycles, diesel buses, etc, electrification makes a huge difference. With EVs slowly becoming more dominant in central London (most taxis, and many buses and delivery vans are electric now), I've several times had the slightly eerie (but happy)…

> diesel buses Ah, we love the electric ones here in sweden! Of course they have to stop ~20 minutes to recharge instead of just turning back. And of course when it's cold (which surprisingly does happen in sweden) the batteries can't hold enough charge to do 1 run, so they can't run.

> "Of course they have to stop ~20 minutes to recharge instead of just turning back."

London's electric buses (mostly UK-built bus bodies with BYD drivetrains and batteries) have large enough battery packs for them to run all day without charging. They get recharged overnight, when electricity is cheap, while parked in the bus depots.

As of March, London had 785 fully electric buses in service, out of a total fleet of about 9000. The fleet is planned to be fully electric by 2034, which could be brought forward subject to additional funding.

It will be interesting to see if they stick with the overnight-charging model or whether charging while in service will make sense on some routes.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#168

Post by sokoloff »

darkteflon wrote: post #146
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? You are claiming Tokyo is shit, so is there a city of conparable size that does better? Or are you just demanding something impossible?

What’s impossible about it? Where are the bans on diesel trucks in the city centre? Where are the zero emissions vehicles visible in just about every other metropolis? Where are the congestion charges? Bike lanes? Tree cover? This is a political problem and as long as the Japanese auto lobby has the LDP in their pocket, we who live here live the consequences.

You’re saying other cities’ air quality experience is totally irrelevant in some posts and then making a direct comparison to policies that other cities have implemented in this post. It doesn’t seem a consistent position to me.

IMO, what other cities do (and the results they get) is relevant when discussing what’s good, bad, or practically possible.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#169

Post by aerojoe23 »

michaelteter wrote: post #84

There are two issues here. One is that we need to come up with comprehensive solutions for reducing the number of vehicles in use. But that’s a difficult problem where solutions take decades and must be tailored to each scenario. But what can be addressed now is the engine and exhaust sound levels. Some vehicles are loud because their engines are working hard, but many vehicles are loud because people (boys) want the…

As I've already gone down the urbanest/transportation rabbit hole and have watch every Not Just Bikes video and other stuff in that space, I have a different perspective than you. I do think I would have shared some of your views a few years ago.

We don't need to come up with solutions. Countries around the world have already. Some of the larger cities in the USA have started making these changes and seeing results.

The solutions don't need to be comprehensive. While an accepted comprehensive plan maybe nice it does put all the planning up front and makes the projects take a very long time. Doing small things that push people to take other transport options doesn't need to take forever. As many cities demonstrated during the pandemic.

In the USA I think the biggest issue will be political will. But the one thing I'd like to see take off is cities removing parking minimums for new businesses or construction. The minimums were arbitrarily set and stop people from building small businesses. The parking minimums spread things out and drive the need to do something other than walk. Strong Towns has a video on it that does a better job than I can.

In short I believe comprehensive guide to being to reduce cars in cities exist at this point.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#170

Post by mcv »

david-gpu wrote: post #17

I live in a high-rise condo next to a six-lane stroad that was even showcased on this YouTube channel and the 24/7 traffic noise is annoying, particularly when you want to go for a walk and can't even hold a conversation. This didn't happen in the places where I lived back in Europe because zoning laws were different. Instead of the sprawl of freehold single family homes separate from a dense urban core, these much q…

And when roads are noisy, they get noise screens to contain it.

While Dutch highways tend to have speed limits of 100-130 kph, the A-10 ring highway around Amsterdam has one section that's limited to 80 kph because it passed through a densely populated area of the city. There's big apartment blocks right next to the highway (and one offramp passes straight through a building), so traffic has to go slower to keep noise levels down.

If the US doesn't even do that, I think that tells you something about how much cars are prioritised over people.

Post reply on HN