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Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

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Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#131

Post by cogogo »

david-gpu wrote: post #17

I live in a high-rise condo next to a six-lane stroad that was even showcased on this YouTube channel and the 24/7 traffic noise is annoying, particularly when you want to go for a walk and can't even hold a conversation. This didn't happen in the places where I lived back in Europe because zoning laws were different. Instead of the sprawl of freehold single family homes separate from a dense urban core, these much q…

Europe is definitely not a monolith with regards to noise. Loudest place I’ve ever lived is Barcelona. Was a one-way side street but the scooter noise was still insane. Cars make a lot of noise but at least in my city-living experience across both Europe and US people at bar closing times, parties, construction, scooters and motorcycles are far worse for noise affecting quality of life. Also remembering what it was like to live next to the L in Chicago forever ago… that was loud.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#132

Post by djaychela »

kqr wrote: post #77
est31 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is EU regulation 2017/1576 that requires to make noises if driving at low speeds. https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/news/electric-and... I'm an EV fan, but lower noise levels makes them more dangerous, not less, at least to the people they can potentially hit (of course for people living next to roads, noise is more hazardous from a more general health point of view). Cars are killer machines and stuff…

You're right, but it's still weird. It's asking the outside people to shoulder the responsibility of avoiding the killer machine. I'd rather have quiet cars and much harsher crackdowns on drivers that use them in ways that jeopardy the lives of others. There are many things drivers can do to reduce the hazard, such as slowing down, buying smaller vehicles, using cars that don't isolate outside noise, only driving whe…

The flipside of that is that pedestrian deaths are increasing. And I think this is because a lot of them are distracted (many just cross the road while on their phones, and some have over-ear headphones), and some just think "well, the car has to stop, so I'll step out". It's not just car drivers who are at fault - I've had some crazy near-misses with arrogant pedestrians, and sometimes when I've been on my motorbike which is not quiet, and also I would pay quite a price for an accident, even if with a pedestrian or trying to avoid one.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#133

Post by ajuc »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #14

The anti car bias on HN is such a blind spot. Yes, lots of us work on computers and have metropolitan hobbies. Huge numbers of people don't. It's an empathy gap. Cars aren't worse or better, they're just different. You can't have NYC with LA's parking and you can't have LA with NYC's parking.

It's USA pro-car bias, not HN anti-car bias.

Looking from anywhere else in the world - how car-centric USA is - is fucking insane. Minor regional differences doesn't matter, you're still out there in the top right corner, category of your own.

BTW one of the result of this is that somehow Americans think only people living in big cities don't like cars. Like WTF? What does one have to do with the other?

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#134

Post by kortex »

dchnshA wrote: post #26
throwaway22032 wrote: post #14

The anti car bias on HN is such a blind spot. Yes, lots of us work on computers and have metropolitan hobbies. Huge numbers of people don't. It's an empathy gap. Cars aren't worse or better, they're just different. You can't have NYC with LA's parking and you can't have LA with NYC's parking.

> Cars aren't worse or better, they're just different. Cars are plain worse. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co2-transport-mode > anti car bias on HN I more worry worried about the anti smashing your fingers with a hammer bias on HN > It's an empathy gap It is an infrastructure spending gap.

Even if towns had the infra money and political will (they usually don't), where's all this hypothetical infrastructure gonna go? Where I live, there's a main drag which is the ideal location for pedestrian infra, has all the shops, near the one (1) bus route we have. No sidewalks. No room to even put one in, without some massive eminent domain. Literally there are buildings in the way which would prevent any expansion.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#135

Post by darkteflon »

SapporoChris wrote: post #109
darkteflon wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s been like this for days, it will continue into next week. We had no announcements where I am, none of the news broadcasts I checked (and I checked a few) mentioned it. The Tokyo metro site wouldn’t even load on my phone. Glad you got a heads up. Don’t really care what Paris is like, tbh. Shit air is shit air. Saying it’s shitter somewhere else isn’t super compelling. The whole point of my original comment was th…

https://www.iqair.com/japan/tokyo Site has Historic air quality graph for Tokyo and the daily chart shows the air quality is very good.

EDIT: To clarify, if you checked accuweather.com yesterday morning you would’ve seen a pollution map flooded red, AQI 142.

Yep I know - but did you check how many monitoring sites they use and where they’re placed? It’s not representative of the actual experience of living here. If you’re walking, or cycling, you’re constantly in extreme close proximity to tailpipe emissions from cars and diesel trucks. The city also famously has lots of construction activity, almost always also belching diesel.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#136

Post by djaychela »

wildrhythms wrote: post #56
s_dev wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so weird that the 'noise' of petrol cars is considered a safety feature. I've heard from the older generation "Yeah but EVs don't make noise which makes them extremely dangerous. Could easily kill a child or old woman who steps out on to a road because they don't hear a car coming". It must be the same group of people with their anecdotes about seatbelts and airbags making cars more dangerous.

Same logic created the "Loud pipes save lives!" mantra among motorcyclists despite the fact that there's no evidence to support this. By the time a car driver hears the bike it's already too late to avoid an accident.

Anecdata here - I have had quiet and loud bikes, and the loud ones mean you're much less likely to get 'lane changed' on. Drivers are generally pretty ignorant of what's around them, and it's always the biker that pays the price if there is an accident. I generally don't put myself in harm's way, but there are always times when you have to be in a danger zone. And a loud bike is noticed more, in my experience.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#137

Post by throwaway10563 »

mort96 wrote: post #45
mbork_pl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are right, though. After years of (probably subconscious) conditioning I have a "quiet => safe" condition imprinted very deeply. Especially on smaller streets in quieter neighborhoods.

So, what, do you just not look before jumping into the road if you can't hear anything?

People here tend to walk in middle of the road in smaller one-way streets and move aside when they hear engine noise. More then once I've been startled by electric cars quietly creeping behind me.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#138

Post by ATMLOTTOBEER »

po wrote: post #102
darkteflon wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this take about Japan all the time and do not understand it. No offence, but have you spent any time in Japan? Rural areas might be quiet for sheer low population density, but the cities are disgusting. PM2.5 levels in Tokyo yesterday were like 6x WHO limits and absolutely no one on the local news was talking about it. Every morning I see pregnant and new mothers with infants or small children squeezing between…

I just walked out onto my 3rd floor balcony in Tokyo at 8:30pm and my watch says it is 38dB. I can hear some light car traffic in the distance. I live about a 20 minute walk to Shibuya crossing, so not exactly rural. I also live about 100m from Yamatedori which is a giant arterial road. I used to live in NYC. Tokyo is a very quiet city. Not all parts for sure... you can have an apartment by a train crossing or they m…

This was my experience as well visiting Tokyo as someone who lives in nyc

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#139

Post by bombolo »

toxik wrote: post #35
zo1 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget motorcycles.

This is the one that gets me. It would be trivial to regulate, and the inspections already happen. But no, straight pipe hot rod bikes are somehow a human necessity.

Got to get laid… women are attracted by loud noises.

I hate it when I go hiking in a nature park and there comes (illegally) people to ride bikes and quads on the trails. But even on the road, I hear those damn motorcycle's engines for tens of km in that silence.

I remember one summer hearing a particularly annoying instance, that then stopped, and after a while an helicopter. We presumed he had gone into a ditch. Found out later that it was exactly what happened.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#140

Post by ClumsyPilot »

darkteflon wrote: post #112
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PM2.5 levels in Tokyo yesterday were like 6x WHO limits Is it worse than SA, London or any other megacity of the world?

[flagged]

Huh? You are claiming Tokyo is shit, so is there a city of conparable size that does better? Or are you just demanding something impossible?
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