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Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

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Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#71

Post by rhaway84773 »

kqr wrote: post #63
jenadine wrote: post #18

I live near an intersection, and the most annoying noise is honking. Why do driver have to honk so much is beyond me. Also quite annoying is ambulance/police. They are really loud.

Honking is basically the only real way drivers have to communicate with the world outside their car. When a honk is needed to say anything you have to use it for everything. (The contrast is particularly stark against e.g. cycling where you can just match pace with a stranger and hold a brief conversation about whatever happened.)

Honking is about drivers releasing their frustration and nothing else.

For one thing, everyone in other cars have their ACs and music on and cannot hear the honking anyways. So you’re not communicating with them anyways. And if you’re honking at pedestrians in a first world country you’re driving wrong.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#72

Post by mbork_pl »

mort96 wrote: post #45
mbork_pl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are right, though. After years of (probably subconscious) conditioning I have a "quiet => safe" condition imprinted very deeply. Especially on smaller streets in quieter neighborhoods.

So, what, do you just not look before jumping into the road if you can't hear anything?

Precisely (though "walking" is a better word than "jumping"). I need to put in a conscious effort to actually look, especially when I'm lost in thought. (The fact that in some places there is no clear visual distinction between the street and the pavement does not help, either.)

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#73

Post by darkteflon »

noduerme wrote: post #67
darkteflon wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this take about Japan all the time and do not understand it. No offence, but have you spent any time in Japan? Rural areas might be quiet for sheer low population density, but the cities are disgusting. PM2.5 levels in Tokyo yesterday were like 6x WHO limits and absolutely no one on the local news was talking about it. Every morning I see pregnant and new mothers with infants or small children squeezing between…

> and wonder what the cost of all of this will be Likely the same extended lifespan that's been prevalent in Japan over the past century of smoking, diesel and construction (along with the occasional nuclear catastrophe). Humans are apparently more ruggedized than they look on paper.

And luckily, the only relevant measure of quality of life is the number of years lived, isn’t it.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#74

Post by rtpg »

darkteflon wrote: post #44
david-gpu wrote: post #17

I live in a high-rise condo next to a six-lane stroad that was even showcased on this YouTube channel and the 24/7 traffic noise is annoying, particularly when you want to go for a walk and can't even hold a conversation. This didn't happen in the places where I lived back in Europe because zoning laws were different. Instead of the sprawl of freehold single family homes separate from a dense urban core, these much q…

I see this take about Japan all the time and do not understand it. No offence, but have you spent any time in Japan? Rural areas might be quiet for sheer low population density, but the cities are disgusting. PM2.5 levels in Tokyo yesterday were like 6x WHO limits and absolutely no one on the local news was talking about it. Every morning I see pregnant and new mothers with infants or small children squeezing between…

> PM2.5 levels in Tokyo yesterday were like 6x WHO limits and absolutely no one on the local news was talking about it

What are you talking about? Localities sent a smog alert, made announcements on the speaker, and there was a whole thing. It was a particularly hot day as well.

I don’t have that many reference points to be fair, but almost every time I’ve checked general air quality (at least according to the first site that describes AQI) for Paris has always been worse than Tokyo.

Of course things can be massively improved. There is a lot of noise pollution. But the conversations are relative to other places. My reference points are limited but on points like air pollution or smoking other major cities fare worse IMO.

Though this is all super subjective, and even within a city various parts of it have a vastly different vibe.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#76

Post by phpisthebest »

david-gpu wrote: post #17

I live in a high-rise condo next to a six-lane stroad that was even showcased on this YouTube channel and the 24/7 traffic noise is annoying, particularly when you want to go for a walk and can't even hold a conversation. This didn't happen in the places where I lived back in Europe because zoning laws were different. Instead of the sprawl of freehold single family homes separate from a dense urban core, these much q…

>>This means people can live within walking distance to where they work and where they shop, so they do just that: walk through quiet streets, often surrounded with trees.

it would take more than changing zoning laws for that, as I understand changing jobs and such is not as common in these locations as well. If you are changing jobs every couple of years having to find a home in the same neighborhood as your new job may be a challenge.

Also I prefer not be limited in my shopping choices just to the single shop that happens to be in my building or on my block...

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#77

Post by kqr »

est31 wrote: post #61
s_dev wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so weird that the 'noise' of petrol cars is considered a safety feature. I've heard from the older generation "Yeah but EVs don't make noise which makes them extremely dangerous. Could easily kill a child or old woman who steps out on to a road because they don't hear a car coming". It must be the same group of people with their anecdotes about seatbelts and airbags making cars more dangerous.

There is EU regulation 2017/1576 that requires to make noises if driving at low speeds. https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/news/electric-and... I'm an EV fan, but lower noise levels makes them more dangerous, not less, at least to the people they can potentially hit (of course for people living next to roads, noise is more hazardous from a more general health point of view). Cars are killer machines and stuff…

You're right, but it's still weird.

It's asking the outside people to shoulder the responsibility of avoiding the killer machine. I'd rather have quiet cars and much harsher crackdowns on drivers that use them in ways that jeopardy the lives of others. There are many things drivers can do to reduce the hazard, such as slowing down, buying smaller vehicles, using cars that don't isolate outside noise, only driving when in good mental condition, etc.

It's crazy to me that we allow cars that isolate their cockpit more and more from their surroundings (quiet, small windows, high up from the ground) and instead ask the surroundings to avoid the danger.

I know, ultimately it is each person's own responsibility to avoid death, and it might make sense for the legal system to reflect that. But we don't have these laws with other dangerous things ("it's okay to practise throwing molotov cocktails in public squares, as long as you wear bright clothing so people know to keep their distance"), so cars are sort of an outlier.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#78

Post by bombolo »

robertlagrant wrote: post #69
david-gpu wrote: post #17

I live in a high-rise condo next to a six-lane stroad that was even showcased on this YouTube channel and the 24/7 traffic noise is annoying, particularly when you want to go for a walk and can't even hold a conversation. This didn't happen in the places where I lived back in Europe because zoning laws were different. Instead of the sprawl of freehold single family homes separate from a dense urban core, these much q…

> This means people can live within walking distance to where they work and where they shop This is less common than you think. There are 8500 or so malls in Europe[0]. I happen to live near an (expensive) shop, which I use because I like walking places, but I also know I have a tech salary that lets me buy a place that's in walking distance of a shop, and afford to shop in it regularly. Also, plenty of people don't…

you don't go to a mall for regular food shopping. You go once in a while to buy less common items.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#79

Post by brvsft »

bluescrn wrote: post #59

Cars are a fairly constant and relatively low-level background noise, except for boy racers with intentionally-loud exhausts and revving aggressively, or anyone honking angrily. Trucks and buses going over speed bumps, now that's much more annoying road noise (when there's a speed bump on a moderately busy road just outside your bedroom window) Frequent emergency sirens and car alarms, they're pretty loud and sleep-i…

> Trucks and buses going over speed bumps, now that's much more annoying road noise (when there's a speed bump on a moderately busy road just outside your bedroom window)

This gives me nightmares about my last apartment. Not even the same situation, but the specific nature of this reminds me that you don't even know what's going to be a bad situation until it happens. I lived next to a road that did not appear to be busy and had a 35 mph speed limit when visiting. That road turned into a major artery for people going to and from work during morning and afternoon rush hour, with most drivers going closer to 45 - 50 mph. My window didn't even face the road, but the constant doppler shift sounds of the cars echoed down the alleyway into my bedroom window. I started to hate that sound.

Pedestrians also crossed that street frequently, and I'd occasionally hear car crashes if I was working from home. It always happened from someone stopping short to avoid killing a pedestrian, and the car behind that car rearending it.

I thought I'd learned my lesson after living directly on a busy street. That was even worse. People would constantly honk in the right lane because the car at the front of that lane would be turning right, but might have to wait for a pedestrian. It was infuriating. They're several cars back in the right lane and can't see what's going on so they have to assume the person at the front of the lane must be asleep at the wheel, so they honk. I wanted to get out there are inflict corporal punishment on anyone who honked.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#80

Post by hug »

wildrhythms wrote: post #56
s_dev wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so weird that the 'noise' of petrol cars is considered a safety feature. I've heard from the older generation "Yeah but EVs don't make noise which makes them extremely dangerous. Could easily kill a child or old woman who steps out on to a road because they don't hear a car coming". It must be the same group of people with their anecdotes about seatbelts and airbags making cars more dangerous.

Same logic created the "Loud pipes save lives!" mantra among motorcyclists despite the fact that there's no evidence to support this. By the time a car driver hears the bike it's already too late to avoid an accident.

This is an anecdote, but worth mentioning.

I ride a bike. I don’t ride a loud bike: it’s still within Australian limits for sale, but it has some volume, and a little bit of lower end thump.

Two bikes before that I rode a 250cc four cylinder bike, that did up to 18,000 RPM. It, again, was within Australian limits, although honestly not by much.

In the middle of those two, I rode a 600cc bike that was significantly quieter than either of those.

My riding remained mostly the same, but one of the three I had significantly more people changing lanes while I was quite literally right beside them.

I don’t believe that ridiculous straight through drag pipes on high displacement twin engines are necessary, but being as loud as another car absolutely saves lives.

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