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Visa and Mastercard agree to lower average credit card interchange fee below 1%

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Re: Visa and Mastercard agree to lower average credit card interchange fee below 1%

#201

Post by Symbiote »

herbst wrote: post #143
alibarber wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused - this commenter says the only reason some population of the EU have a credit card is to purchase stuff from US websites. Which to me implies that their EU debit card only works locally. In my corner of the EU - I don't recognise this at all as every debit card you would get from a bank here (as an adult with no bad credit judgements) is Visa branded and works just fine anywhere worldwide that would be s…

Same here in Switzerland. Most cards I see now have dual use and work as debit and credit card with visa or master. My card works everywhere and even credit card transactions appear as slow debit transactions. I also don't pay any fees for any of that. Only the merchants do in my case.

European debit cards work as debit cards, the distinction is the network used.

My Danish debit card supports both Visa and Dankort, the Danish network. Danish companies will generally put the transaction through Dankort, as the fees are lower, but it's still a debit transaction if it goes through Visa's network.

Dankort only cards begin with the number 5019. Visa+Dankort with 4571.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_card_number

Re: Visa and Mastercard agree to lower average credit card interchange fee below 1%

#202

Post by Broken_Hippo »

carlmr wrote: post #167
badcppdev wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a great map of the US on Wikipedia showing the Sales Tax by County ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_Stat... ) Sales Tax ranges from 0% through to 12%

But still OP's point stands. If the VAT was more visible, people might be less accepting of it, like with credit card fees.

I'm in Norway. There is no real way to avoid knowing what the VAT on things are.

I have to pay it if I order from Amazon or Etsy, for example. If I order from the US, I pay later.

Every sales receipt has the VAT right on the receipt. I can see it every single time. If I order from inside the country, I can see it before I pay.

It isn't hidden. It isn't secret.

It wasn't even secret to an immigrant that didn't yet understand enough Norwegian to know.

What I do get is to be reasonably certain what I'm going to pay when I get to the cash register. I don't have to do mental gymnastics with a total if I'm tight on money - like I have many times in the US. It won't change if I'm in a different part of Norway. There simply aren't as many price surprises like that.

Re: Visa and Mastercard agree to lower average credit card interchange fee below 1%

#203

Post by Faaak »

adrr wrote: post #84
e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not objecting to credit cards and promoting cash instead -- I'll happily support a total cash ban (quite an unpopular opinion around these circles, I believe, but that's a story for another time). I'm objecting to the cost of 2-300bps on credit cards, when it is trivially shown that they can be 30-50bps (Alipay, EU caps, etc) and everything will work just fine, just without 2% cashback.

Significant number of people below the povery level are unbanked and live off cash which is why some jursidictoons ban retailers from not accepting cash. What's your opinion on Buy now Pay Later for online retailers? fee is close to 5% but allows customers to pay for items with interest free installments over 90 days.

In some countries, citizens have the right of opening a bank account though

Re: Visa and Mastercard agree to lower average credit card interchange fee below 1%

#204

Post by sumedh »

e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #76
adrr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash is more expensive to take as a payment method than interchange unless you’re cheating on taxes.

I'm not objecting to credit cards and promoting cash instead -- I'll happily support a total cash ban (quite an unpopular opinion around these circles, I believe, but that's a story for another time). I'm objecting to the cost of 2-300bps on credit cards, when it is trivially shown that they can be 30-50bps (Alipay, EU caps, etc) and everything will work just fine, just without 2% cashback.

> I'll happily support a total cash ban

So if you say something negative about the govt and the govt bans your access to e payments, would you still support that?

Re: Visa and Mastercard agree to lower average credit card interchange fee below 1%

#205

Post by sumedh »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #195
lvl102 wrote: post #176

It’s 2023 and we are still letting these companies take money from EVERY SINGLE TRANSACTION. This is the single greatest open scam in the world.

I get what you're saying, but those systems don't pay for themselves. How should payment processing be funded if not per transaction?

> How should payment processing be funded if not per transaction? reply

Taxes? Do you pay a toll to use each and every road for your car?

Do something like what India has done.

Re: Visa and Mastercard agree to lower average credit card interchange fee below 1%

#206

Post by sumedh »

cashmonster wrote: post #82
Pxtl wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? If the merchant is paying an extra 1-2% for your purchase in cc transaction fees, why should they be expected to eat the cost? Why should your service be subsidized by people whose transactions don't have that overhead?

They are paying even more to manage cash but don’t have a separate fee for it. Why should credit card users subsidize that? (Personally I think it’s fine to charge any which way you want as long as your terms are clear. But I think this answer makes clear it’s not so obvious as you suggest?)

With cash, merchants can show less income and then pay less tax.

Re: Visa and Mastercard agree to lower average credit card interchange fee below 1%

#207

Post by lvl102 »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #195
lvl102 wrote: post #176

It’s 2023 and we are still letting these companies take money from EVERY SINGLE TRANSACTION. This is the single greatest open scam in the world.

I get what you're saying, but those systems don't pay for themselves. How should payment processing be funded if not per transaction?

It only made sense when banks were much smaller and we didn’t have smartphones and cheap internet.

You’re paying for a network that’s lost value. You’re paying for a brand at this point. It’s a scam.

Re: Visa and Mastercard agree to lower average credit card interchange fee below 1%

#208

Post by refurb »

withinboredom wrote: post #197
refurb wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that contracts can't contain illegal clauses right? They aren't enforceable in any court.

I thought we already established that it wasn't illegal? You can, however, create contracts that restrict your abilities or for things that are perfectly legal. For example, we can sign a contract that you're no longer aloud to walk, or buy candy. That's a legally enforcable contract. In this case the contract is that 1) you tell them you're doing this and 2) that it is capped to a certain amount and 3) you are visib…

For example, we can sign a contract that you're no longer aloud to walk

No, I can't.

If you have me sign a contract that says "refurb agrees to no longer walk in exchange for $50,000", that will not be enforceable in court.

https://blog.ipleaders.in/unenforceable-contracts-what-you-n...

You said "If you want to have fun, you can report them to Visa/MC and watch that go away within a few days.", so no, if they are following the contract terms, it won't go away.

And Visa isn't able to include a blanket ban on surcharges due to changes in the law that would make such a contract illegal and unenforceable.

Re: Visa and Mastercard agree to lower average credit card interchange fee below 1%

#209

Post by rhaway84773 »

e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #12
arcticbull wrote: post #6

Visa and Mastercard don't keep much of interchange at all and never have. The vast majority is paid to issuing banks to pay for loan origination, fraud and, most significantly, to return in the form of cash back or points. These networks charge 0.2% for debit and 0.3% for credit in Europe as per regulation, you just don't get rewards there. Kinda sounds like they're just going to squeeze issuing banks. Cash back and…

These numbers are not public, but the grapevine is that visa/mastercard keeps about a third of all interchange. Credit card rewards are a regressive tax on the poor -- literally, only those like us here on HN with good credit can get 2% cashback on everything, the rest who pay with debit/cash effectively subsidise our 2% discount. I enjoy my 2% cashback, but really would rather see a world where, like the EU, interch…

India could be a good model here. Basically, the likes of Venmo/Zelle have replaced everything. They are not allowed to charge a transaction fee (I’m pretty sure…and if they are, it’s set very low), and they are required to work across platforms (so a Venmo user should be able to pay a Zelle user directly without having to download Zelle).

Re: Visa and Mastercard agree to lower average credit card interchange fee below 1%

#210

Post by nulbyte »

carlosjobim wrote: post #149
matsemann wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I often find surprising is people or shops complaining about the fees, and then trying to use cash everywhere. Dealing with cash is so incredible expensive, just because you don't see the fee doesn't mean it's not there. Like my parents had to deal a lot with cash before. That meant thataafter every shift, you had to spend time counting it, and whole processes around that. Safe storage, extra security, extra thr…

- There are machines to count cash. - Storage and security doesn't have to be expensive if you're smart about it. - You can set your prices so that you don't keep running out of a certain coin. - You are not obliged to take the money to the bank. It really is not "incredibly expensive" to deal with cash.

> It really is not "incredibly expensive" to deal with cash.

Yes, it is. Cash counters cost money to buy and operate. Storage and security has a cost, and even if it is not "expensive" in isolation, storing and securing cash doesn't happen in a vacuum. You really can't set prices to avoid running out of certain coins, because people buy different mixes of items that may or may not be taxable. And you are obliged to take your money to a bank if you want to pay your suppliers and employees, who all expect a check, direct deposit, or ACH.

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