Live data from Hacker News

The Great CPU Stagnation

databasearchitects.blogspot.com

191–200 of 222 posts

Re: The Great CPU Stagnation

#191
post #175
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's still the case, though. Like it or not, computation is cheap and developers are expensive. Code isn't worth optimizing until it either becomes a bottleneck, or you are running it on thousands of machines.

Exactly this bothers me a lot. I do bare metal performance optimizations, but I worry to never find a job outside of academia in that field. as I don't want to do high-frequency trading nor develop games.

You could look lower in the stack, e.g. at compilers, drivers, and libraries for GPUs and other accelerators. That's not a huge field, but still a decent number of jobs to go around.

Re: The Great CPU Stagnation

#192
post #44

The perfect time to shed ourselves of the idea that "optimisation is a waste of dev-time". Mobile computing was the last godsent t actually rethink performance a little bit, but we still have a lot of relatively low-hanging fruit. I sometimes dream about a month-of-no-new-features, where everyone would just have a bit of time to clean up and improve on existing stuff.

A more extreme version of that is “permacomputing”— https://permacomputing.net/projects/ I still regularly use old systems for fun. I grew up with Macs, so that’s the point of reference. When I use these old systems, I pine for a few specific things I’m used to on newer systems—but it almost feels like nitpicking. The things that I really want from a computer are pretty basic. Like good, consistent copy/paste and dra…

Make Forth Great Again

Re: The Great CPU Stagnation

#193
post #170
post #44

The perfect time to shed ourselves of the idea that "optimisation is a waste of dev-time". Mobile computing was the last godsent t actually rethink performance a little bit, but we still have a lot of relatively low-hanging fruit. I sometimes dream about a month-of-no-new-features, where everyone would just have a bit of time to clean up and improve on existing stuff.

That's still the case, though. Like it or not, computation is cheap and developers are expensive. Code isn't worth optimizing until it either becomes a bottleneck, or you are running it on thousands of machines.

> Code isn't worth optimizing until it either becomes a bottleneck

This is a well-known fallacy. There's no guarantee your performance problems have a single bottleneck. In fact, more often than not, your entire program is poorly thought and the only way to fix it is a full rewrite, with the associated risks.

> When I was teaching, I often used this metaphor: suppose you’re writing some system, you decide that you should avoid premature optimization, so you take the usual advice and build something simple that works. In this metaphor let’s pretend that your whole program is a sort. So you choose a simple sort that works. Bubble Sort. You try it out and it functions perfectly. Now remember Bubble Sort is a metaphor for your whole program. Now we all know that Bubble Sort is crap, so you have to eventually change to Quicksort. Hoare likes you more now. So how do you get there? Do you just, you know, “tune” the Bubble Sort? Of course not, you’re screwed, you have to throw it all out and do it over. OK, except the greater-than test, you can keep that. The rest is going in the trash.

> But you got valuable experience, right? No, you didn’t. Anything you learned about the Bubble Sort is worthless. Quicksort has entirely different considerations.

> The point here is that a small bit of analysis up front could have told you that you needed a O(n*lg(n)) sort and you would have been better served doing that up front. This does not mean you have to microtune the Quicksort up front. Maybe down the road you’ll discover that part of the sort (remember this is a metaphor) should be written in ASM because it’s just that important. Maybe you won’t. There will be time for that. But getting the right key choices up front was not premature. There is a suitable amount of analysis that is appropriate at each stage of your product.

https://ricomariani.medium.com/hotspots-premature-optimizati...

Re: The Great CPU Stagnation

#194

This "stagnation" is nothing like the stagnation during AMD's poorly performing Bulldozer era (the post Athlon era) where they were consistently beat by Intel's offerings and there was a general lack of innovation in the prosumer space. During that era for the most part Intel's i7 prosumer CPUs started with 4 cores with the Bloomfield Nehalem chips in 2008 (which at the time were awesome and a game changer) and ended…

Userbenchmark is fairly useless for CPU performance, though. Their results are often completely nonsensical.

Re: The Great CPU Stagnation

#195
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my i7-4790 served me nicely for 8 years. Only upgraded because now most games were CPU-limited, even on "only" GTX 1070. But I went "all in" "I don't want to upgrade for quite a long time" with 7800X3D. Maybe GPU upgrade in 2-3 years...

Have you seen the recent Gamers Nexus videos on CPU overvolting and catching on fire? You should update your BIOS to prevent potential further damage.

That issue currently appears to be relevant only to the AM5 series boards and CPUs. The 5900X is an AM4 part.

Re: The Great CPU Stagnation

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is that moment in video game development when the feature set is locked down and it basically turns into speed and stability optimization. Some people love it, others hate it. I guess you would get a similar state in some embedded systems. The folks at NASA working on the Mars Rovers have a set target and are usually targeting mid 90's MIPS or PPC processor so they have to be fixated on speed and performance.

Smart contracts get there too. There is a huge monetary incentive for optimization and correctness at launch.

At least no one is using those.

Re: The Great CPU Stagnation

#197
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then we actually agree? You don't get heating without resistance, ergo resistance is the main problem. MRIs don't have any problems sending a thousand amps through their coils.

You're right that the resistance is where the heat is dissipated, but lowering the resistance does not actually change the amount of heat. Transistor switching can be modeled as a step input to an RC circuit [1]. If you integrate the power through the resistor to infinity, you'll see that the value of the resistor drops out. Intuitively, you might think of it like this: to charge a capacitor (or transistor) up to a c…

Ok but again, why do we need the resistors at all? That's what limits the speed at which the capacitor can discharge, so with theoretically 0 resistance you'd get immediate discharge and could go to infinite frequencies, or more realistically as far as the speed of electrons allows for consistent gate switching.

To add a bit of troll physics here (but I'm told computers using this sort of principle actually exist), why not then channel those electrons to a boost converter that pipes them back into VCC, recycling most of the current? Theoretically a 99% power usage improvement, minus what the converter loses to heat, and that can be as low as 10%.

Re: The Great CPU Stagnation

#198

This "stagnation" is nothing like the stagnation during AMD's poorly performing Bulldozer era (the post Athlon era) where they were consistently beat by Intel's offerings and there was a general lack of innovation in the prosumer space. During that era for the most part Intel's i7 prosumer CPUs started with 4 cores with the Bloomfield Nehalem chips in 2008 (which at the time were awesome and a game changer) and ended…

Not saying you're wrong, because intel stagnation was very real, but please don't use userbenchmark as a source of numbers for anything. They're a terrible source with biased benchmarks and reporting. Just look at the dribble they write for basically any AMD product on their site ( https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/SpeedTest/1817839/AMD-Ryzen-7-... , or this https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/SpeedTest/2081998/AMD-Ryzen-7-...…

Likewise, please don't use Cinebench. It's a poor general purpose CPU benchmark that first favored Zen architecture (many slow cores) and now favors Intel's Raptor Lake. It's hand optimized for x86 instructions and is highly parallel, which is not how most applications run.

Use Geekbench instead of Cinebench or Userbenchmark.

Re: The Great CPU Stagnation

#199

This "stagnation" is nothing like the stagnation during AMD's poorly performing Bulldozer era (the post Athlon era) where they were consistently beat by Intel's offerings and there was a general lack of innovation in the prosumer space. During that era for the most part Intel's i7 prosumer CPUs started with 4 cores with the Bloomfield Nehalem chips in 2008 (which at the time were awesome and a game changer) and ended…

This is true. The Intel 4-core era lasted a staggering 10 years due to no competition.

Today, it seems like CPU competition is a live again with Intel, AMD, Apple, Ampere, ARM, Graviton, RISV, Qualcomm, etc.

Re: The Great CPU Stagnation

#200
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently watching a Gamer's Nexus video where they tested a new built Voodoo 6 5000, I was impressed watching them install some ancient edition of Windows in which to do the testing, and how snappy and responsive the interface was.

My first computer was a 95 Packard Bell. I was 12 years old at the time, so I might be misremembering, but I swear the interface responsiveness felt immediate .

Dan Luu did various tests on keyboard and terminal latency. Its not pretty. However a modern desktop have a compositor (since Vista, Linux since XFree86 -> X.org, and macOS since forever). This is essentially double screen rendering.
Post reply on HN