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The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

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Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#51

Post by lotsofpulp »

christophilus wrote: post #27
munk-a wrote: post #5

The modern version of the American dream is an extremely toxic ideology. It promotes such an extreme version of individualism that it's threatening to tear apart all the social safety nets still existent in the US while also glorifying excessive wealth hoarding. It is absolutely bonkers that we've gotten to the point where cheating on your taxes can be viewed as a virtue.

The US got its start at least partially due to a tax revolt, so that last bit isn’t terribly surprising.

I would not characterize protesting taxes due to unfair tax policy the same as cheating taxes to lower how much you contribute to society relative to how much you take.

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#52

Post by bitwize »

One of these days we're going to wake up and realize that the defining characteristic of American society, economy, and politics is toxic individualism. And having named the monster, we can begin addressing it.

Adopting a toxically individualist stance has made some people rich and powerful, however, and they will do anything to maintain this false consciousness.

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#53

Post by sharadov »

tokyolights2 wrote: post #3

I spend so much of my time intentionally trying to cultivate community. In some respects, it is the over-arching theme of my adult life. I find community is very hard to come by so if I have to be the one to make it, so be it. I pay a pretty penny to be a member of a coworking space so I don't spend my workday alone. Three times per week I go to regularly-scheduled events (a game night, running club, and roller-skati…

Kudos to you for doing it - it's all the more important now that so many of us are WFH. I took my past social life for granted - one that was built for over a decade and when going into office was normal.

It's been hard to make new friends - after moving to a new city and remote working.

I have not tried as hard as you did, but I am inspired by your post!

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#54

Post by tiedieconderoga »

christophilus wrote: post #27
munk-a wrote: post #5

The modern version of the American dream is an extremely toxic ideology. It promotes such an extreme version of individualism that it's threatening to tear apart all the social safety nets still existent in the US while also glorifying excessive wealth hoarding. It is absolutely bonkers that we've gotten to the point where cheating on your taxes can be viewed as a virtue.

The US got its start at least partially due to a tax revolt, so that last bit isn’t terribly surprising.

It wasn't a revolt against taxation, the issue was that the colonies had no say in how their taxes were collected and spent.

The slogan was, "No taxation without representation."

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#55

Post by AdrianB1 »

munk-a wrote: post #5

The modern version of the American dream is an extremely toxic ideology. It promotes such an extreme version of individualism that it's threatening to tear apart all the social safety nets still existent in the US while also glorifying excessive wealth hoarding. It is absolutely bonkers that we've gotten to the point where cheating on your taxes can be viewed as a virtue.

Extreme individualism does not explain in any way high taxes and redistribution (benefits, food stamps, high tax returns to low income families). Extreme individualism would be low taxes and zero social benefits.

Loneliness and individualism are not the same. Loneliness has other causes, like eroding the idea of family, court system that punishes marriage (at 50% divorce rate), promiscuity (most apps like Tinder are used for non-committal flings), the gender wars (a lot of gas was poured in the last 10 years on that fire), unrealistic expectations of people from partners, moral decay reducing trust in friends, etc.

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#56

Post by nocoiner »

tokyolights2 wrote: post #3

I spend so much of my time intentionally trying to cultivate community. In some respects, it is the over-arching theme of my adult life. I find community is very hard to come by so if I have to be the one to make it, so be it. I pay a pretty penny to be a member of a coworking space so I don't spend my workday alone. Three times per week I go to regularly-scheduled events (a game night, running club, and roller-skati…

I think this is a brilliant and healthy way to look at how to build meaning in modern American life. I came to a similar conclusion a few years back - it’s hard work, but so is everything else worth doing. I’m not particularly good at it though, but hey, always good to have some areas of self-improvement.

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#57

Post by tomtheelder »

tokyolights2 wrote: post #3

I spend so much of my time intentionally trying to cultivate community. In some respects, it is the over-arching theme of my adult life. I find community is very hard to come by so if I have to be the one to make it, so be it. I pay a pretty penny to be a member of a coworking space so I don't spend my workday alone. Three times per week I go to regularly-scheduled events (a game night, running club, and roller-skati…

This felt like reading my own words. It has been and continues to be an enormous amount of effort to try to foster that sort of community, but truly nothing else I have invested into in my life- save my relationship with my partner- has been worth even a _fraction_ of what my community building efforts have been worth.

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#58

Post by dang »

munk-a wrote: post #5

The modern version of the American dream is an extremely toxic ideology. It promotes such an extreme version of individualism that it's threatening to tear apart all the social safety nets still existent in the US while also glorifying excessive wealth hoarding. It is absolutely bonkers that we've gotten to the point where cheating on your taxes can be viewed as a virtue.

Can you please not post in the ideological flamewar style? It leads to lower-quality threads and we're trying to avoid that. We want curious conversation here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#59

Post by cogogo »

elzbardico wrote: post #12

While I am not a fan of American Exceptionalism, I think this article is more informed by the usual European prejudiced tropes about America than by reality, at least in the parallels between the traditions of rugged individualism from the Old West and the present epidemics of loneliness. The old Cowboy was based on self-reliance, he was not a loner because he couldn't connect with people, but because his adventures…

As an American married to a Spaniard who has lived in and spent considerable time in Spain… I’m not sure I totally agree with that take but it does resonate. White collar working life in Spain is a greater slog than people would expect based on a visit or expectations based on general European values. We live in Boston now and are deeply appreciative of both our opportunities and quality of life.
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