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The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

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Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#21

Post by tokyolights2 »

cobertos wrote: post #14
tokyolights2 wrote: post #3

I spend so much of my time intentionally trying to cultivate community. In some respects, it is the over-arching theme of my adult life. I find community is very hard to come by so if I have to be the one to make it, so be it. I pay a pretty penny to be a member of a coworking space so I don't spend my workday alone. Three times per week I go to regularly-scheduled events (a game night, running club, and roller-skati…

Do you ever struggle with giving more time to specific friendships/relationships you want to cultivate more, at the expense of others? I find when I focus on a group, usually it also comes at the expense of focus on the individuals, and the people feel less close. Unless I put a lot of focus on the group over time, then I usually get to know the individuals depthful enough, but not as deep if I had spent that time wi…

The best part about introducing your friends to each other is that then they can hang out with each other without you having to do anything at all! I definitely have some close friends I expect to see multiple times per week. Others I'm perfectly happy to see once per month. Others who have moved away and I won't see until I visit their city.

Friends and community are not a zero-sum game. The more interconnected and inter-dependent people are, the more likely that everyone is going to have deep and meaningful relationships.

I used to feel much more like you when I was regularly hanging out with friends almost exclusively 1:1. I thought I was doing that because I was introverted, but realistically I was doing it because I had social anxiety. Looking back, hanging mostly 1:1 made me feel like my friends were more distant because there were so many people I didn't see for months that I always felt like I didn't really know my friends.

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#22

Post by elzbardico »

As someone who was born in Latin America, I always find those stereotypes about America funny. If anything, Americans can't fucking leave you alone for God's sake. They need to smile at you in the street, give you good morning, invite you to their churches, and bring you a pie after you move to the neighborhood. Ok, this is more of a suburban experience. But this is also quintessential America.

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#23

Post by rqtwteye »

munk-a wrote: post #5

The modern version of the American dream is an extremely toxic ideology. It promotes such an extreme version of individualism that it's threatening to tear apart all the social safety nets still existent in the US while also glorifying excessive wealth hoarding. It is absolutely bonkers that we've gotten to the point where cheating on your taxes can be viewed as a virtue.

It probably started with shareholder value when companies they declared that their only responsibility is to make as much money as possible. This ideology is very appealing to sociopaths so now they dominate.

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#24

Post by jasmer »

The 'American Dream' was that you could have a property/house (small!), maybe a one car, maybe some 'fancy' things like a diswhasher, and probably do that while only one parent was working, and your rights would be protected, you'd have political stability and participatory democracy, rule of law, a sense of national identity, and probably an 'ok retirement' - and you'd be able to do that in your 'community'.

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#25

Post by jasmer »

munk-a wrote: post #5

The modern version of the American dream is an extremely toxic ideology. It promotes such an extreme version of individualism that it's threatening to tear apart all the social safety nets still existent in the US while also glorifying excessive wealth hoarding. It is absolutely bonkers that we've gotten to the point where cheating on your taxes can be viewed as a virtue.

I suggest that the 'modern toxic version of the American Dream' is defined mostly by people who want to define it as toxic. So you could say that maybe Zuckerburg represents that, which would make it kind of toxic, but I don't think most Americans would ever think he represents the dream. Though I suppose there are fewer visible local community members who are representative of it as role models.

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#27

Post by christophilus »

munk-a wrote: post #5

The modern version of the American dream is an extremely toxic ideology. It promotes such an extreme version of individualism that it's threatening to tear apart all the social safety nets still existent in the US while also glorifying excessive wealth hoarding. It is absolutely bonkers that we've gotten to the point where cheating on your taxes can be viewed as a virtue.

The US got its start at least partially due to a tax revolt, so that last bit isn’t terribly surprising.

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#28

Post by elzbardico »

AlbertCory wrote: post #18

"the contours of American society — that emphasis on individualism, that spreading out with impunity over a vast, sometimes outsized landscape" I hate to be boring enough to ask for citations, but this is a case where we really need them. It reads like something written by a non-American. In most of American history, people lived close to their families. Certainly in smaller towns, they did. Once there were big citie…

I am not an American and I don't see things about the American Ethos the same way the author does. Most foreigners who have lived in the USA are far more forgiving of the American society. No, it takes an east coast intelectual born in america to be so critical of American Society.

And mind you, if you look at my history here you'll see lots of comments critical of American and especially its foreign policy. But this kind of stereotyping is basically wrong.

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#29

Post by labrador »

It’s a classic example of a fundamental American tall tale — that of a nation built on notions of individualism, a male-dominated story filled with loners and “rugged individualists” who suck it up, do what needs to be done, ride off into the sunset and like it that way.

I don't know where they got the idea that Americans "like it that way". American music is full of heart breaking tales of lonesomeness, "so lonesome you could die". Google "lyrics lonesome" turns up "about 7,470,000 results"

Re: The American Dream convinces people loneliness is normal

#30

Post by graedus »

valianteffort wrote: post #16
tokyolights2 wrote: post #3

I spend so much of my time intentionally trying to cultivate community. In some respects, it is the over-arching theme of my adult life. I find community is very hard to come by so if I have to be the one to make it, so be it. I pay a pretty penny to be a member of a coworking space so I don't spend my workday alone. Three times per week I go to regularly-scheduled events (a game night, running club, and roller-skati…

Greatest decision I ever made was getting a remote gig, leaving the big city, and moving to a small town. There is enough going on here to keep busy, and everyone knows eachother. Would never dream of raising my kids somewhere like SF. If you want community, go somewhere it's valued. Everyone in the big city is a transient, only there to make money and find love before it's time to head for the suburbs.

> Everyone in the big city is a transient, only there to make money and find love before it's time to head for the suburbs.

I might be taking this bit of hyperbole(?) too literally, but while this might be a common trajectory for young professionals, it obviously doesn't cover everyone.

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