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Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

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Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#241

Post by hgs3 »

deelly wrote: post #240
hgs3 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a better solution: the countries foreign workers are coming from should do a better job of retaining them. When countries lose their talent, they are brain-drained and this stunts the growth of their own tech-sectors. Ideally, foreign workers won't want to leave their own countries because they should have high-wages and good opportunities at home.

So, to solve working immigration issue one country should somehow force foreign countries to retain outside immigration by proposing better job to workers? How one country can do it?

> How one country can do it?

It is not one countries responsibility, it is every countries responsibility to retain their own talent and grow their own tech-sector.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#242

Post by UncleMeat »

rayiner wrote: post #230
UncleMeat wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't really talk both about H1Bs and naturalized citizens at the same time here. The topic of conversation is worker visas. And, conveniently for you, it takes fucking forever for an Indian citizen in the US on H1B to get naturalized. But I'll ask you: do you think that naturalized citizens of south asian descent should leave the country? You and I disagree politically, why can't I demand that you expatriate?

> You can't really talk both about H1Bs and naturalized citizens at the same time here. They are closely related. American law sees the H1B as a temporary worker visa, which in theory won’t lead to lots of new naturalized citizens changing the country and the workforce. Indians see the H1B as the first step to permanent immigration and naturalization. The ridiculousness of the H1B process arises from that fundamental…

If citizenship is citizenship, who the fuck are you to say that us citizens of south asian descent should go to another country?

This is just bigotry. Clear as day.

I was living in Virginia in 1989. You don’t get to tell me what I value.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#243

Post by User23 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #219
User23 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t really refute the claim that H-1B drives down the market price of labor by citing their price in the market. You have to show those wages would be the same even without the immigrant workers. From a basic supply and demand perspective that sounds unlikely, but markets are complex dynamic creatures so perhaps it’s the case. Nevertheless it needs to be shown.

Similarly, it is very challenging to demonstrate this claim. It does not seem like the sort of thing we should take as a given.

Agreed, markets are complex. And frankly I don't find market based arguments for or against immigration particularly compelling for that reason. So far as I can tell we really have no reason to believe either side's claims along that dimension.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#244

Post by arcticbull »

confidantlake wrote: post #239
rhaway84773 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that basically 90+% of Americans today are all immigrants right? You do realize that right? Essentially you are stating everyone who loses a job in the U.S. should leave the US. Or alternatively you want to draw a line when the good immigrants are allowed to enter after which are the bad immigrants. And I’m sure that conveniently that line will ensure your family becomes part of the good immigrants.

This is not true. If your parents were immigrants and you were born here you are not an immigrant.

Hm, not really. That would make you a second-generation immigrant. [1]

First-generation immigrants are folks who are born outside the US and naturalize. "In the United States, among demographers and other social scientists, 'second generation [immigrants]' refers to the U.S.-born children of foreign-born parents."

Not in the strictest sense, but it's not the bright line you're making it out to be either.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_generations

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#245

Post by rayiner »

UncleMeat wrote: post #242
rayiner wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't really talk both about H1Bs and naturalized citizens at the same time here. They are closely related. American law sees the H1B as a temporary worker visa, which in theory won’t lead to lots of new naturalized citizens changing the country and the workforce. Indians see the H1B as the first step to permanent immigration and naturalization. The ridiculousness of the H1B process arises from that fundamental…

If citizenship is citizenship, who the fuck are you to say that us citizens of south asian descent should go to another country? This is just bigotry. Clear as day. I was living in Virginia in 1989. You don’t get to tell me what I value.

I didn’t say that they should live in another country, nor am I telling you what to value. I’m pointing out that by coming to places like Virginia, we dramatically changed them, and it’s entirely reasonable for people to ask whether we want further immigration and further such changes. Maybe you like the changes, but I think they were for the worse, and I bet a lot of people in Virginia agree.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#246

Post by deelly »

hgs3 wrote: post #241
deelly wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, to solve working immigration issue one country should somehow force foreign countries to retain outside immigration by proposing better job to workers? How one country can do it?

> How one country can do it? It is not one countries responsibility, it is every countries responsibility to retain their own talent and grow their own tech-sector.

And how to force country to do it? If, for example, country don't have resources to do itself?

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#247

Post by hgs3 »

deelly wrote: post #246
hgs3 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How one country can do it? It is not one countries responsibility, it is every countries responsibility to retain their own talent and grow their own tech-sector.

And how to force country to do it? If, for example, country don't have resources to do itself?

> And how to force country to do it?

You cannot force a country to do anything. They have to want to do it.

> If, for example, country don't have resources to do itself?

That's a difficult question without a simple answer. Ideally, countries would build themselves up, acquiring the resources to have their own industries.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#248

Post by andrewjl »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #154
andrewjl wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really doubtful whether a labor constrained labor market helps _all_ local workers. Sure, some may see a benefit. Others might see employers cancel projects and reduce planned investments, due to more expensive inputs driven by higher labor costs.

I think it is pretty definitively good for their competitors. This is different than all labor or all local workers. If you're one of a few workers that do X and everyone wants to do X, this is a good thing for you.

So the right move then is to structure the economy around what's good for Big Tech workers? Sounds like it'd be a pretty popular cause. /s

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#249

Post by UncleMeat »

rayiner wrote: post #245
UncleMeat wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If citizenship is citizenship, who the fuck are you to say that us citizens of south asian descent should go to another country? This is just bigotry. Clear as day. I was living in Virginia in 1989. You don’t get to tell me what I value.

I didn’t say that they should live in another country, nor am I telling you what to value. I’m pointing out that by coming to places like Virginia, we dramatically changed them, and it’s entirely reasonable for people to ask whether we want further immigration and further such changes. Maybe you like the changes, but I think they were for the worse, and I bet a lot of people in Virginia agree.

You said that they should “invest their talents in India.” You brought up us citizens who were voting. You can’t back out of this now. You said it.

It seems from your post that you weren’t even living in VA at the time. Are you somehow bigoted against both south asians and Virginians? You betting that a large portion of Virginians are just racists who don’t want brown people around (excuse me, “people who vote for elites”) is just fucking awful. I don’t even understand what you are trying to achieve.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#250

Post by confidantlake »

arcticbull wrote: post #244
confidantlake wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. If your parents were immigrants and you were born here you are not an immigrant.

Hm, not really. That would make you a second-generation immigrant. [1] First-generation immigrants are folks who are born outside the US and naturalize. "In the United States, among demographers and other social scientists, 'second generation [immigrants]' refers to the U.S.-born children of foreign-born parents." Not in the strictest sense, but it's not the bright line you're making it out to be either. [1] https://…

This is incorrect, 90% of Americans are not immigrants. Please stop spreading misinformation.
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