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One million cancel broadband as living costs rise

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Re: One million cancel broadband as living costs rise

#411

Post by jjav »

EddieEngineers wrote: post #190
jameshush wrote: post #153

Visiting family in the UK for the first time in about five years. Costs here are _way_ higher than I remember. I bought three hamburgers, three drinks, and two large pops at a burger shop here, the total was 48 GBP (about $60 USD). This was at Five Guys. I couldn't believe it. I visited my co-worker in the UK, and over some beers, he mentioned he's getting taxed at 48-50% on top of this. Also 20% VAT on regular shopp…

Five Guys has always been that price, but I agree with your point. As a Brit, the US is pretty crazy too though. I just saw a single broccoli for $7 at a grocery store in Palo Alto. On my $172k salary I pay $59k in taxes which is roughly $1k more than I'd pay in the UK but in the UK that includes national insurance while in the US I pay health insurance on top. So while taxes sound crazy in the UK it's not actually d…

> VAT is only 7.25% in California

(Sales tax, not VAT)

But you need to also add local sales taxes, so your sales tax in Palo Alto is actually 9.125%

Re: One million cancel broadband as living costs rise

#412

Post by skippyboxedhero »

bilekas wrote: post #228
skippyboxedhero wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it wouldn't because when you pay tax your money isn't being flushed down the toilet. You don't understand at a fundamental level how the govt works in the UK.

This has nothing to do with the government policies.. it's simple math.

Simple math that you got wrong. Do you understand that 45% is a marginal rate?

And yes, it does have everything to do with govt policies because you are getting value back.

It is like saying taxes are high in Nordic countries, ignoring the fact that most of what you pay is returned to you. Saying that doesn't impact demand or the price level is not accurate, and misunderstands (again) at a fundamental level how govt operates.

Re: One million cancel broadband as living costs rise

#413

Post by fsckboy »

lesuorac wrote: post #392
fsckboy wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> our VAT is 25% VAT is the biggest scam, it's just an income tax under another name. What is a company's income? revenue - costs What is a company's value-add? revenue - costs massive eye-roll. I once asked a real (tm) economist what the difference was and he looked up and thought for a minute and said "payroll tax". Payroll tax is what the US calls social security tax (for retirement, unemployment and the like)

Isn't VAT the best way to ensure tax is collected? Somebody can just not pay Sales tax and so the government doesn't collect it. But with VAT the seller is incentive to report so they can recover the VAT they paid. i.e. McDonalds buys 10 burgers and pays 1$ in VAT to their supplier. then McDonalds sells those 10 (now cooked) burgers and can recover 1$ in VAT from the government while the consumers ultimately pay >1$…

when your employer pays your wages, they have an incentive to report that to the govt as a cost so they don't pay tax on it. That gives the govt the information they need to come after you for not paying your income tax on it. So, same thing, income tax and VAT there is more enforceability because he structure of payments and information flow can make a difference to ease of enforcement...

but the amount of tax is based on what activity is being taxed. Sales taxes are considered "regressive" because poor people spend a greater %age of their income, so in some sense it can be seen as an "undoing" of progressive income tax. That's not strictly true, however, because the working class complaint about rich people is how much rich people consume while living greedy lavish lives: which shows that rich people would be paying a lot more of the overall %age of sales tax than poor people (not really strictly distinguishing VAT from sales tax here)

So, anyway, I'm not defending sales taxes here (meaning tax on final sale to consume-ers with no taxes backward up the supply chain). VAT taxes do make more sense in terms of economic efficiency: 10% sales tax on a printer selling for $200 is $20, where the printer cost $300 to make (remember, they're going to sell you expensive ink), and with a VAT tax the tax would be $0 (or would it even be a $30 refund?)...

...point is, VAT tax works out to a high sales-tax-on-high-profit-margin-goods and a low sales-tax-on-low-profit-margin-goods, which is helpful because govt doesn't want to distort the market for low margin goods with high taxes.

However, back to my original point, it simply means that income taxes make more economic sense than consumption taxes, and VAT is an income tax, not a consumption tax.

Re: One million cancel broadband as living costs rise

#414

Post by skippyboxedhero »

mvdtnz wrote: post #325
skippyboxedhero wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't believe prices are so high...goes to Five Guys which is at least 3x any other burger chain. I still can't believe how cheap the UK is. Big Mac meal near me is £6, cheeseburger is £1, 1kg of potatoes was 20p the other week, two-portion microwavable rice 20p, even a nice matured ribeye steak is only £5, it is genuinely incredible. In particular, the price of stuff that comes from farmers is really too low in the…

Are you really in here arguing that UK is not in a cost of living crisis? There's plenty of evidence that they are, and this seems like a needlessly contrarian post.

I have no idea what "a cost of living crisis" is or what the quantitative definition for one is.

Demand is not falling so, by definition, there cannot be a "cost of living crisis". Because prices have increased does not mean they are at a high level.

You are acting as if some govt agency has declared a "cost of living crisis" and that is somehow meaningful to reality. I gave you specific examples of the prices of food: you call that "contrarian", I don't see any specific examples in your post however...perhaps you are being needlessly contrarian?

Re: One million cancel broadband as living costs rise

#415

Post by jjav »

adventured wrote: post #236
EddieEngineers wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Five Guys has always been that price, but I agree with your point. As a Brit, the US is pretty crazy too though. I just saw a single broccoli for $7 at a grocery store in Palo Alto. On my $172k salary I pay $59k in taxes which is roughly $1k more than I'd pay in the UK but in the UK that includes national insurance while in the US I pay health insurance on top. So while taxes sound crazy in the UK it's not actually d…

If you're capable of earning $172,000 in salary in the US, you can trivially get an employer that covers essentially all the cost of your health insurance (if that's an important arrangement wherever you're at in life; ie if you want that packaged into your total compensation vs taxes calculation). That's the typical situation for someone with a salary that high in the US. Your scenario is pretending that people earn…

> If you're capable of earning $172,000 in salary in the US, you can trivially get an employer that covers essentially all the cost of your health insurance

Employers rarely cover all the health care premiums for you entire family.

Most non-startups will cover 100% for the employee, but if you're not single you'll end up paying quite a bit to cover your spouse & kids.

Re: One million cancel broadband as living costs rise

#416

Post by geodel »

jameshush wrote: post #153

Visiting family in the UK for the first time in about five years. Costs here are _way_ higher than I remember. I bought three hamburgers, three drinks, and two large pops at a burger shop here, the total was 48 GBP (about $60 USD). This was at Five Guys. I couldn't believe it. I visited my co-worker in the UK, and over some beers, he mentioned he's getting taxed at 48-50% on top of this. Also 20% VAT on regular shopp…

A quick search tells 5 guys burger prices are about same in US dollar vs UK pound ..e.g $9 here 9 GBP there. So yes, high price, but if anyone last few years still thinks that fast food is cheap and kind of daily thing is a victim of marketing myth.

It doesn't help that how its sneakily promoted by TV shows where beat cops, blue collar workers eating burgers and shake all the time where IT engineer like me would balk at such high prices

Re: One million cancel broadband as living costs rise

#417

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

zamnos wrote: post #345
wskinner wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top marginal rate of 45% in the UK starts at £125,140. Compare that to the US, where the top marginal rate of 37% starts at $578,125. - Edited to correct incorrect US top rate.

California's state income tax is 12.3% starting at $677,276, so the top rate is 49.3%, and actually surpasses 50% once other taxes are taken into account, and then you have to factor in healthcare costs on top of that. Which as you get older and later into your career (which is when you'd make that much money anyway) can't be ignored either.

High-income wage earners on the US typically get health insurance from their job, which is a tax-exempt benefit that isn’t included in income statistics. After retirement age, Medicare will pay for most medical expenses, although it’s still smart to save some extra money for whatever Medicare doesn’t cover. Amortized over a career, reasonable savings for post-retirement health care might amount to 1% or so for someone in that income range.

Re: One million cancel broadband as living costs rise

#418

Post by skippyboxedhero »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #327
skippyboxedhero wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't believe prices are so high...goes to Five Guys which is at least 3x any other burger chain. I still can't believe how cheap the UK is. Big Mac meal near me is £6, cheeseburger is £1, 1kg of potatoes was 20p the other week, two-portion microwavable rice 20p, even a nice matured ribeye steak is only £5, it is genuinely incredible. In particular, the price of stuff that comes from farmers is really too low in the…

45% probably includes retirement contributions.

No, it doesn't. 45% is the top marginal rate, no-one in the UK includes "retirement contributions" as part of taxation...it makes no sense.

Re: One million cancel broadband as living costs rise

#419

Post by jjav »

bombcar wrote: post #314
streptomycin wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, in CA that order at Five Guys would be $55 ( https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/five-guys-prices/ gives prices at (8.95*3+3.06*3+7.41*2)*1.0725), but I imagine people in CA are richer than people in the UK...

People in CA would go to In-n-Out anyway. https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/in-n-out-prices/ at (2.46 3+2.16 3+1.87 2) 1.0725 = $18.88. Even if you double the fries because they're not "large" you're still under $25. Five Guys is batshit insane.

In-n-Out burgers are smaller though, so I usually get two whereas I'll only have one at Five Guys.

Still, Five Guys is a bit over the top expensive so I rarely go there.

Re: One million cancel broadband as living costs rise

#420

Post by hnav »

larksimian wrote: post #333
ianlevesque wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I feel like people coast on experiences from 5-10 years ago. This isn't a 3G hotspot. Ping time right now is 53ms and I'm getting 200/20 for $50, all included, no additional fees. This is outside their actual ideal service area too. I'd love symmetric fiber for $50, but 'for what it is' isn't doing much lifting at all.

Eh, it's relative. You can get that for like 10 euros a month in Romania and they throw in a mobile phone and some cable channels to boot I think.

yeah but you can haphazardly hang fiber off of telephone poles in Romania
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