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Cargo Cult AI

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Re: Cargo Cult AI

#41
post #18

Echoing many who now find themselves blindsided by the emergent abilities and rapid adoption of LLMs, the OP: * complains that we still lack a "comprehensive theory to explain what intelligence is or how it emerges from first principles," * argues that deep neural nets like LLMs may not be capable of artificial general intelligence (AGI), and * contends that achieving AGI will require "new algorithmic paradigms." Ric…

I don't see how that at all counters point 1 or maybe even point 2.

Although LLMs are incredible feats of engineering, they're useless scientifically. The hallmark of a good scientific theory is that it not only explains what's true but that it fails to predict what's false.

There are constraints that all human languages obey [1]. Humans are incapable of learning languages that violate these constraints (i.e. we don't have hardware acceleration for them and are reduced to explicit symbolic manipulation). However, LLMs are just as capable of learning inhuman languages as human ones, so they tell us nothing about the nature of human intelligence, or at least our language capacity, which is our most distinguishing feature from every other species on earth.

[1] This isn't an example of such a constraint, but it's fun example of human limitation: center embedding! We seem to be incapable of doing it more than once or twice. "A man that a woman that a child that a bird that I heard saw knows loves" is perfectly grammatical but nearly impossible to understand without seeing it in print, whereas we can right embed all day long: "a man who is loved by a woman who is known by a child who was seen by a bird that I heard".

Re: Cargo Cult AI

#42
post #36

> Is the ability to think scientifically the defining essence of intelligence? ; Physicist Carl Sagan once wrote that "science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking." This type of thinking requires skeptical rigor and brutal honesty to thoroughly investigate,... I think the key to brutal honesty is the ability to deliver and accept brutal honesty between peers and rivals. This is the skill you f'i…

Ever read Popper on the scientific method? It’s a classic: https://staff.washington.edu/lynnhank/Popper-1.pdf

Re: Cargo Cult AI

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple things that don't seem impressive to you, but are impressive to others, may be because you haven't experienced the first hand difficulty of doing that thing pre-transformers/GPT. For example, I get _unbelievably_ excited with knowledge extraction and question answering demos on PDFs. Why? Because i've built similar systems for over a decade and know how difficult it is to build on top of messy archival data. N…

Hey, would you mind sharing the tools and other resources you’ve found helpful? I’m really interested in trying this but am not sure where to start.

This tutorial is a good overview of the rough systems behind most of this "Chat your data" application you're seeing now.

https://www.pinecone.io/learn/langchain-retrieval-augmentati...

Langchain / Llama indexes are both toolboxes that abstract away a lot of the plumbing for doing this kind of thing, and Pinecone is one of dozens of vector databases.

Personally, i'd try out langchain and chromadb and go through some of the examples langchain has in their docs, then be prepared to completely abandon langchain and just work with the LLM APIs directly. Start with openai, get on the waitlist for GPT-4 tokens, and also get on Anthropics Claude waitlist for the 100k-1.3. It's _very_ good for knowledge retrieval.

Langchain tries to do too much in extracting away the prompts, and the prompts are really what matter in getting interesting stuff out of your own data. Use langchain, llamaindex pieces but build from scratch for most things as your tinkering.

It's really not hard if you have a background in programming, and it's _so_ much fun. You'll feel like you have superpowers once you get a scraping interface hooked into an LLM. All of a sudden you can automate some really complex pipelines very quickly

Re: Cargo Cult AI

#44
post #36

> Is the ability to think scientifically the defining essence of intelligence? ; Physicist Carl Sagan once wrote that "science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking." This type of thinking requires skeptical rigor and brutal honesty to thoroughly investigate,... I think the key to brutal honesty is the ability to deliver and accept brutal honesty between peers and rivals. This is the skill you f'i…

There's absolutely no reason to be "brutally" honest. It's entirely possible to be respectful, clear, and concise all at the same time. And yes, as easy it is to read that sentence without the intensifier, it's also easy to write it without it as well.

Re: Cargo Cult AI

#45

Every time I read about AI I am reminded of the mouse running a maze. Any AI algorithm can learn to complete a maze in record time. It can memorize every corner. It can run a search pattern perfectly and improve that pattern iteratively, to the point that it may create new search patterns, applying what appear to be novel ideas. But the mouse actually understands the concept of a maze. It knows that the cheese exists…

An interesting fallacy I see emerging is 'this system doesn't have animal-style intelligence, therefore it is lesser'

The entire point of neural nets is removing the biases of animal intelligence and letting the computer brute force solutions during training. We are now learning the early stages of the amazing things that can lead to.

From an outside perspective, it's not crazy to argue that symbolic reasoning is a crutch that animals developed since they are imperfect data collectors and limited by their wetware compute resources. Those constraints may not end up being meaningful for these models (to be clear, I don't even mean Transformers per se, we are likely to continue developing really clever model architectures that may look completely difference from what we know today).

I am 100% on board with the substance of you argument, but I'd encourage you to really think critically about the implications.

Re: Cargo Cult AI

#46

I think a lot of AI stuff is really cool and promising, but am dismayed by how impressed people are by it sometimes, especially the visual output of systems like DALL-E. Seems like machines are testing our intelligence, rather than the other way around.

Simple things that don't seem impressive to you, but are impressive to others, may be because you haven't experienced the first hand difficulty of doing that thing pre-transformers/GPT. For example, I get _unbelievably_ excited with knowledge extraction and question answering demos on PDFs. Why? Because i've built similar systems for over a decade and know how difficult it is to build on top of messy archival data. N…

I am kind of in the same boat as you. I sit in a weird spot of thinking the current trend of AI is really impressive, but also thinking people are massively over-hyping it (with a smaller counter wave of some people really undermining it).

Having tangled with natural language processing and transformation in the past (always with dismal results), I can say it's one of the most annoying problems to tackle in computation, because natural languages have the horrible tentency of being very irregular (i.e.: they are a fucking mess).

ChatGPT capabilities to parse and generate fluent language never ceases to amaze me.

At the same time I don't think it's going to take over the world. It's more like a game-changer productivity tool (with all the upheaval that comes along when those appear) than the birth of Skynet.

Re: Cargo Cult AI

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I categorically reject the notion that LMMs (Large Markov Models) can ever be aware or intelligent. Comparing weighted next-word-engines to feeling, thinking, aware beings is insulting.

What's an LMM? I've never seen the term. > Comparing weighted next-word-engines to feeling, thinking, aware beings is insulting Why is it reasonable to be so reductionist about e.g. GPT-4 but not be so reductionist about a biological brain? E.g., why can't I say that your brain is nothing but a bunch of biological neurons trained using its input and intialized based on your genetics? It's equally true, and equally mi…

[deleted]

Re: Cargo Cult AI

#48
Okay, but GPT can actually explain its thinking and even conduct simple proofs with rigour equivalent to what one finds at a modern university maths course. The models are just not good enough for harder tasks, time will tell if they become good enough.

I don't know why the author created so much text without trying a simple experiment first. Perhaps they lack experience in modern evidence based science.

Re: Cargo Cult AI

#49

Every time I read about AI I am reminded of the mouse running a maze. Any AI algorithm can learn to complete a maze in record time. It can memorize every corner. It can run a search pattern perfectly and improve that pattern iteratively, to the point that it may create new search patterns, applying what appear to be novel ideas. But the mouse actually understands the concept of a maze. It knows that the cheese exists…

Although I more or less agree with you, in general, how complex would the AI have to be before you can consider it aware?

Imagination. When the AI is capable not just of describing something but of extrapolating the rest of its existence in order to complete a task. For instance, any puppy understands the basics of information flow. A dog can lie. A dog can be fed by owner A and then tell owner B that A forget. The puppy can imagine the mental states of both owners, extrapolate that they have not coordinated the meal delivery today, identify that information gap, then leverage that understanding into getting two meals instead of one. That's the level of complexity I expect before an AI can be said to be aware of its environment.

Re: Cargo Cult AI

#50
post #36

> Is the ability to think scientifically the defining essence of intelligence? ; Physicist Carl Sagan once wrote that "science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking." This type of thinking requires skeptical rigor and brutal honesty to thoroughly investigate,... I think the key to brutal honesty is the ability to deliver and accept brutal honesty between peers and rivals. This is the skill you f'i…

I came across a great John Dewey quote recently that seems relevant here:

"We may insist that a man needs tact as well as scholarship, or let us say sympathy with human interests... Lack of reverence for the things that mean much to humanity, joined with a craving for public notoriety, may induce a man to pose as a martyr to truth when in reality he is a victim of his own lack of mental and moral poise."

It's a good thing to push back on people being assholes, mostly because it'd suck to live in a world where people feel like their being an asshole is a signal of their intelligence and superiority. It's not. It's a cost they inflict on themselves and others. Sometime it's worth it for both interlocutors to put up with an asshole, but in those scenarios you don't need someone chiming in that "being an asshole isn't being an asshole."

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