Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

kotaku.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 216 posts

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#191

Post by stale2002 »

r00fus wrote: post #177
stale2002 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No actually. Thats not what the castle doctine does. It does not allow you to just shoot someone, who is standing outside your door. If they broke into your house, then yes it might apply. But it absolutely does not allow you to just shoot someone, who knocked on your door.

This has happened - of course, this is Florida, but still: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/03/why-george-zimme... This guy wasn't even on his porch. Stand your ground laws essentially allow gun owners to claim they were frightened for their lives so that becomes "their castle". Wouldn't be very hard to repurpose this kind of weaponized law to actually defend your household. btw - castle doctrine was intended…

You've misinterpreted the case that you posted.

According to the zimmerman trial, if you look into it at all, Zimmerman claimed that he was being attacked, got knocked over on the ground, and then while the attacker was on top of him, yelling that he was going to kill him, he defended himself with a gun, at that point.

And there was some physical evidence and injuries supporting this narrative.

You can say that his statement is a lie, or that you don't believe his testimony.

But, if that testimony is true, Shooting someone who is on top of you, assaulting you, yelling that you are going to die, while you are on the ground, is a much different situation than shooting someone who just knocked on your door.

I would really recommend you look up that case more, if you thought it was in any way similar to "just shooting someone, at your door".

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#192

Post by r00fus »

stale2002 wrote: post #191
r00fus wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has happened - of course, this is Florida, but still: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/03/why-george-zimme... This guy wasn't even on his porch. Stand your ground laws essentially allow gun owners to claim they were frightened for their lives so that becomes "their castle". Wouldn't be very hard to repurpose this kind of weaponized law to actually defend your household. btw - castle doctrine was intended…

You've misinterpreted the case that you posted. According to the zimmerman trial, if you look into it at all, Zimmerman claimed that he was being attacked, got knocked over on the ground, and then while the attacker was on top of him, yelling that he was going to kill him, he defended himself with a gun, at that point. And there was some physical evidence and injuries supporting this narrative. You can say that his s…

Zimmerman chased down Martin and threatened him. He put himself in danger for the sole purpose of being able to use his weapon.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#193

Post by potsandpans »

stale2002 wrote: post #147
r00fus wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of the castle doctrine [1]? It's resulted in some really crazy (and imho horrible) situations where private citizens are allowed to use deadly force and literally murder people in cold blood. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

No actually. Thats not what the castle doctine does. It does not allow you to just shoot someone, who is standing outside your door. If they broke into your house, then yes it might apply. But it absolutely does not allow you to just shoot someone, who knocked on your door.

[flagged]

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#194

Post by stale2002 »

r00fus wrote: post #192
stale2002 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've misinterpreted the case that you posted. According to the zimmerman trial, if you look into it at all, Zimmerman claimed that he was being attacked, got knocked over on the ground, and then while the attacker was on top of him, yelling that he was going to kill him, he defended himself with a gun, at that point. And there was some physical evidence and injuries supporting this narrative. You can say that his s…

Zimmerman chased down Martin and threatened him. He put himself in danger for the sole purpose of being able to use his weapon.

> Zimmerman chased down Martin and threatened him.

> He put himself in danger for the sole purpose of being able to use his weapon

Possibly. That doesn't contradict my statement though.

It is still completely irrelevant to the idea that a person could just shoot someone, who is at their front door.

A more accurate comparison, would be if someone was at your front door, and then that person gets on top of you, yells that they are going to kill you, starts punching you while being on top of you, and causes verifiable head injuries and head bleedings too you, and then you shoot them.

So, at the end of the day, the comparison is still irrelevant to a situation where someone merely knocks on your door.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#195

Post by [deleted] »

stale2002 wrote: post #194
r00fus wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zimmerman chased down Martin and threatened him. He put himself in danger for the sole purpose of being able to use his weapon.

> Zimmerman chased down Martin and threatened him. > He put himself in danger for the sole purpose of being able to use his weapon Possibly. That doesn't contradict my statement though. It is still completely irrelevant to the idea that a person could just shoot someone, who is at their front door. A more accurate comparison, would be if someone was at your front door, and then that person gets on top of you, yells t…

[deleted]

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#196

Post by justinclift »

hinkley wrote: post #163
mikestew wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if the Pinkertons directly... Then you probably should not have responded to a question specifically asking for an example of Pinkerton kicking down doors. As you've clearly stated that you can't answer the question, but rather prefer to go off on some vaguely related tangent, then I will go on about my day.

Dude, your whole energy is trying to shut down conversation and I already told you that’s not going to work. I only knew the Pinkertons still existed reading about problems in the second gulf war, in which they were listed amongst the problem children. I thought that name was retired a century ago, turns out not. What I don’t know is any role they played in Afghanistan. Bracketing your base of knowledge is not weakne…

> Act like a grownup.

Dude... :(

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#197

Post by 8note »

stale2002 wrote: post #191
r00fus wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has happened - of course, this is Florida, but still: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/03/why-george-zimme... This guy wasn't even on his porch. Stand your ground laws essentially allow gun owners to claim they were frightened for their lives so that becomes "their castle". Wouldn't be very hard to repurpose this kind of weaponized law to actually defend your household. btw - castle doctrine was intended…

You've misinterpreted the case that you posted. According to the zimmerman trial, if you look into it at all, Zimmerman claimed that he was being attacked, got knocked over on the ground, and then while the attacker was on top of him, yelling that he was going to kill him, he defended himself with a gun, at that point. And there was some physical evidence and injuries supporting this narrative. You can say that his s…

The lesson is that if you say that you were fearing for your life, you're in the clear, at least as long as your victim was the only witness.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#198

Post by midjji »

pc86 wrote: post #159
midjji wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing that isn't stories by friends working for securitas (the main company for which pinkerton is a brand), or anecdotes. I am certain I could find a story like that just by googling for it, but real statistics are what are interesting, and I cant be bothered to research it. So let me instead ask, what evidence do you have that they are better than the police? because that is what you are arguing. In general you c…

They're not arguing that they're better than police, they're saying that police have protections other people don't, and those protections are the only reason they feel comfortable kicking doors down. You're very, very unlikely to find some private security guy willing to kick a door down for some trading cards, because pretty much the first time they're wrong about it they're going to jail. You don't get qualified i…

Those protections are not the only reason the police are comfortable doing things like that, those protections are there, because the justice system could not get police to stop doing that regardless, and in extraordinarily rare cases its justified.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#199

Post by midjji »

oliwarner wrote: post #169
midjji wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but they could have broken it down, assaulted them, then claimed that they were violent. They get away with that kind of crap all the time, because mostly, they do this to criminals, and are friends with the local police. Sometimes they get caught, usually for things like shooting a dog that was chained and far out of reach, or because someone had it on video, but these thugs are the kind of people who got r…

> then claimed that they were violent If you're assaulted at somebody's house but you overpower them, you don't get to loot them. This isn't D&D.

Its called fait accompli. If I go to someone who stole my bike, beat them and take the bike back, yeah I do get to keep the loot, even if they prosecute me, which is unlikely, and even if they succeed in prosecuting me which is also unlikely, I still get to keep the loot. Its not the way the legal system or the law is supposed to apply, but in reality the idea or intent of law is irrelevant, its its practical application that matters. It is why I explicitly say they get away with it because they mostly do it to criminals.

No one in their sane mind think the law is intended to allow the threats they made etc, or that they had the rights to do what they did, but they did it anyways, and as the story shows, they got away with it. Think about that again, they did this to some rich white geek with a platform and they got away with it. What do you think they would get away with against a known criminal...

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#200

Post by midjji »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #112
midjji wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but they could have broken it down, assaulted them, then claimed that they were violent. They get away with that kind of crap all the time, because mostly, they do this to criminals, and are friends with the local police. Sometimes they get caught, usually for things like shooting a dog that was chained and far out of reach, or because someone had it on video, but these thugs are the kind of people who got r…

>> but they could have broken it down In the US, that would be an exceedingly bad idea on the part of the Pinkertons. They don't have the same protections law enforcement has: they are treated legally the same as anybody else, which means that in 38 US states they'd be justifying the homeowners use of deadly force.

Yes, and had they continued to insist, showed their guns, and refused to leave he would have gotten away with getting a weapon and shooting them. But most homeowners are both unwilling and unable to take down a couple of armed thugs, assuming he even had a weapon at home that wasnt a fantasy sword replica.

Had he escalated and then drawn a weapon, odds are they would have shot him and may well have gotten away with it, claiming they were just asking questions and he immediately drew a weapon and tried to shoot them.

Remember that when some rednecks hunted down and killed a kid a while back for running while black(Ahmaud Arbery) the police initially wanted to drop the prosecution, and its quite possible that without the national attention of the Floyed case, and the murderers being dumb enough videotape themseles, they may well have gotten away with it. The simple fact that it was a discussion of if they would get convicted at all is just as telling. And police will generally back security companies more than rednecks in court.

Post reply on HN