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Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Internet Policy

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Re: Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Internet Policy

#311
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This isn't a meaningful tautology. "The system is unjust because it is unjust and therefore must always be unjust." > We can and should improve society. We should, but what makes you think that we can?

I've seen amazing progress over my lifetime, and I see enormous potential in current social movements. It's not guaranteed, and I see incredibly destructive social movements picking up speed as well, but I do believe it's possible.

From the time Lincoln was assassinated in 1895, until Roosevelt was elected in 1933, we had the age of robber-barons, enormous wealth disparity and the rich owning all of America.

We've had something like social progress from then until, when? Reagonomics? 1981.

So maybe 50 years of socially progressive government. Out of 250. Pretty dismal.

Re: Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Internet Policy

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but the other poster was probably being sarcastic and just frustrated in a tone that is hard to describe in plain text.

ETA: Upon rereading, this feels pretty weasely and I don't stand by it, so I'd like to add this was my bad & I'm sorry for being overly literal. Ultimately it's as much my responsibility to understand the sarcasm as it is other people to make it clear to me. I feel this way when I'm misunderstood despite being fairly clear, so it's only fair that I apologize and accept responsibility when I am the one to misunderstan…

If only everyone were as gracious and thoughtful… thanks for demonstrating responsible engagement online!

Yes, Poe's Law and all for sure…

Also: https://mimiandeunice.com/2011/06/08/status-quo/

Re: Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Internet Policy

#313
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We deliberately changed this with the advent of the LLC, which is a new thing (~50 years) Before that shareholders were liable for corporate acts. At least monetarily People seem to not realize this. We should undo it. It was a mistake

Do you mind unpacking this? How is an LLC fundamentally different than a C Corp in this regard? Do you have references?

LLC's are state inventions, and thus vary quite a bit, but one standard feature is that you can't be liable for more than you put in. Thus they are shielded from any excess liability beyond their investment. This is true of c-corps today for sure. However, on top of that, they usually have almost no formalities or regulations, making piercing the corporate veil incredibly difficult.

C-corps have limited liability (now), but piercing is much easier for bad acts, and they have lots of regulation and formality (historically) that helped prevent bad acts in the first place.

The LLC changed a lot here - you could form businesses basically structured any way you want, with almost no regulations, and still not be liable. Outside of constructing an LLC to do totally illegal things (like rob banks or something), you and your shareholders are pretty much never liable.

That is definitely not true of C-corps, and was even less true historically :)

For limited liability in general: General forms of limited liability are about 100-150 years old, depending on country. IE before 1850, it was pretty rare. I believe new york has an earlier statute, but it was uncommon.

LLC's are not corporations, either, under most state law, they are special forms of companies.

The alternative mind you, was sometimes double liability for shareholders, who both lost their investments, and had to pay for excess loss.

I'm actually okay with that - it's a good way to ensure better diligence and less risk.

It's true that LLC's enabled innovation that would have been slower, but at a tremendous cost - enabling almost any risk to be taken for free is to me, a lot worse than slower innovation. It also lead to totally perverse things (toxic dumping, etc) and shareholders didn't worry or care because at most they lost some of their investment, and most of the time, could easily pull it out before the shares dropped, and move on to investing in the next horrible thing. In the old world, they would have been responsible for the entire cost, even if they pulled out.

Limited liability is a bad idea as long as people can do horrible things to each other and the world faster than you can (or should) make them strictly illegal.

People can always think of horribly destructive ways to make money, and ensuring not just personal, but shareholder liability for them, is one of the only ways to keep things in check.

These things would happen a lot less if the ROI was not as high, and in particular, if downside risk was not minimal.

Your friendly billionaire is going to invest a lot less in arms dealers if the downside risk is not just their 1 million investment, but their entire fortune.

There are lots of good articles on this:

https://www.bus.umich.edu/KresgeLibrary/resources/abla/abld_...

https://www.occ.gov/publications-and-resources/publications/...

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-instituti...

etc

Re: Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Internet Policy

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> According to the rhetoric of the time, we would be living in a world of internet "fast lanes" right now if net neutrality didn't pass. Anything remotely resembling this existed almost a decade ago in a very different landscape, and what you're saying isn't even really reflective of the reality at the time. The vast majority of reasonable people were talking about what would gradually happen if the concept of net ne…

They have a new fantasy where they want a fee from high bandwidth platforms like Netflix and YouTube, because suppisedly they can't deliver what they already charged consumers for. More likely because there's a lot of money moving about and they want a bigger slice.

If a water bottling company moved into your town I'm sure you'd support them paying a little extra. You pay for your water too.

Re: Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Internet Policy

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a new fantasy where they want a fee from high bandwidth platforms like Netflix and YouTube, because suppisedly they can't deliver what they already charged consumers for. More likely because there's a lot of money moving about and they want a bigger slice.

If a water bottling company moved into your town I'm sure you'd support them paying a little extra. You pay for your water too.

That data is only flowing to me because I requested it, and the ISP already sold me an uncapped service.

Can you explain your analogy? I'm unclear if the aquifer is the ISP, the video platform, or something else.

Re: Three Companies Impersonated Millions to Influence Internet Policy

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a step in the right direction. Enabling localities to set up their own competing internet services would be the logical follow up to that.

That I can absolutely agree with, as long as the taxes are usage based and opt-in only!

That's not the way public utilities, work everyone pays taxes on roads and schools without directly benefitting, I don't have any children yet a large portion of my income goes to school, but I understandt the utility of it. the same would go for public internet.
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