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Google Colab will soon introduce AI coding features

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Re: Google Colab will soon introduce AI coding features

#111
post #94

> "soon introduce" This looks like an announcement of an announcement, which isn't on topic for HN. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... On HN, there's no harm in waiting for the actual thing: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

I don't think that's the case. This is the official announcement of a product, with details on how the product works, and I doubt they'll be writing anything particularly more meaty when they proceed through various rollout stages.

The way I've understood the "announcement of an announcement" rule in the past is that it is for reports/rumors that somebody is company to release something, or a company sending a teaser for a future event where they'll announce something.

The standard has never been that the product needs to already be generally available to be on-topic. If that were the standard, when could we discuss say a new iPhone? Not when it's talked about on the big Apple stage. Or as another example consider yesterday's discussion of the changes to the Google account deletion policy. No accounts will be deleted for 9 months, was it an announcement of an announcement?

Re: Google Colab will soon introduce AI coding features

#112

I really think the current paradigm of literally typing if else logic all day into programs, and then getting paid huge money to do so will go away. Programming is going to be much higher level and accessible, though still complex. It will take five years or so. Edit: My prediction is essentially that: You give it a set of requirements for an api, with edge conditions written in plain English. Test cases are provided…

I think this is a sad vision of the future not because a lot of programmers will be forced to do something else, but because it seems like this represents a fundamental failure for formal methods. We're hurtling towards a world where we automatically generate low-quality, buggy code, produced by stochastic parrots who mimic code written in possibly a different era by humans tackling different problems.

Forget about being employed producing software in a world where these are the norms, I don't think I'd want to be a software _user_.

I'd love for programming to be higher level and accessible, but I wish the process were:

- write a _specification_ that describes functionality, invariants, etc

- generate signatures compatible with that specification

- interactively seek implementation-relevant information from the designer, e.g.

  - "I see Users can have an unbounded collection of Bars, which can each reference an unbounded number of Wugs. How many Bars do you suppose a typical User would have? How many Wugs per Bar and how many Bars will reference each Wug? How large is a Wug typically?"

  - "Which of these DB queries do you expect to be run most/least frequently?"

  - "This API method allows for pagination. How often do you expect a user to page beyond k?"
- generate tests

- generate code aligning with signatures, _and which cause tests to pass_ (i.e. program synthesis from examples)

- static analysis / abstract interpretation / model checking to confirm that some invariants are respected

- explicitly reporting which invariants or properties were not able to be confirmed automatically which a human may need to confirm via an ad-hoc analysis

Software is one of the domains where we can actually do a lot of sophisticated automated reasoning, but the current trend of ML code generation as text completion ignores basically all of that, and this seems like a giant waste.

Re: Google Colab will soon introduce AI coding features

#113
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programming is essentially if else logic

Is that what they call "full stack" programming?

"full stack" programming is actually incredibly hard since you can no longer push new items once the stack is full. If this happens you better go the route of "stackoverflow" programming.

Re: Google Colab will soon introduce AI coding features

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10-15 years out AI will be good enough to wipe out at least half of all software developers on the planet (that is, people writing actual code). That's not a risky prediction, that's very easily going to be the case. Those people have nowhere to go to match what they're earning now. Maybe support review roles (which won't pay particularly well), where they approve decisions by the AI that are held up for human approv…

> 10-15 years out AI will be good enough to wipe out at least half of all software developers on the planet (that is, people writing actual code). That's not a risky prediction, that's very easily going to be the case. How is this not a risky prediction? 1. Are you talking about AI (i.e. AGI) or LLMs? If you think we will have AGI in 10 - 15 years maybe you are right, but AGI is always just around the corner. 2. LLMs…

Absolutely not AGI.

I'm talking about AI - made up of multiple modules that focus on different aspects - that can comprehensively build software products, with nothing more than human sign-offs to get from start to finish. Nothing even remotely close to the difficulty of building AGI (which I don't think will happen in the next 30 years at least).

In this scenario the AI has human assistants that sign off on decisions before the AI can proceed further, before it can continue writing more code. The human developers that build this system will include a judgment for checkpoints, for the AI to judge when it thinks it's necessary to ask permission from a human to proceed (hey human, do you want me to go this way or that way?). The AI will occasionally present the human prompt clicker to choose from multiple viable development paths (for example overnight it'll build three different approaches to solving a problem after you leave work at 5pm; when you come in in the morning your task will be to pick the one you think is best, and the AI will proceed from there). I think a pattern of: AI development -> checkpoint approval by human -> continued AI development, will be the superior way to utilize AI to build software (rather than letting it get too far down the wrong path by trying to let it build without oversight most or all of the way).

The human decision making process at checkpoints will become by far the slowest part of building software. The AI will spend most of its time waiting for someone to sign off on a path.

Re: Google Colab will soon introduce AI coding features

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the nature of tech? In the past most programmers needed to focus on low level details while today most devs kit together libraries and services and yet there are more then ever and salaries are higher then ever. I think nobody that enters tech expects that in 20 years we "code" as we do today but we will still build stuff and need to solve problems... and there are enough problems to solve.

That's pretty much the case. We keep building layers and abstracting away. Being a prompt wizard won't pay as well as directly writing code for the AI systems. They're different layers. There won't be more people directly developing software than there are today in the US market, there may be more overall jobs in and around the process however (ie the tech industry will continue to expand to more people in terms of e…

I think we push complexity forward. I agree in the sense that the pure dev part will require less bandwidth for most but the free bandwidth allows us to push complexity forward into different domains. My father still needed to punch card to code and now we can setup an app with a few clicks world wide that uses NN to solve a task and that all by ourself. So demand will be high for cross domain knowledge like Fullstack/ML + Domain X.

Re: Google Colab will soon introduce AI coding features

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be posted under anything. I could claim that the earth is going to turn into a ball of cheese and then write off everyone with “only time will tell.”

Well... how about reading my text trying to interpret it and the world around us? In the sense that things are going so fast that we will soon have the answer and most probably _some_ jobs will be replaced yes (and that it won't take another 50 years as implied in the parent comment to have the definitive answer for it).

You make a good argument (in this comment). I think things are moving really fast and some jobs will be replaced. But even though AI moves extremely fast, the industry as a whole moves much slower. It will take years to integrate and leverage these things. How many companies are still running legacy java applications? How many still run Cobol? Things will change eventually, but AI won't destroy a majority of jobs for many years.

Re: Google Colab will soon introduce AI coding features

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty much the case. We keep building layers and abstracting away. Being a prompt wizard won't pay as well as directly writing code for the AI systems. They're different layers. There won't be more people directly developing software than there are today in the US market, there may be more overall jobs in and around the process however (ie the tech industry will continue to expand to more people in terms of e…

I think we push complexity forward. I agree in the sense that the pure dev part will require less bandwidth for most but the free bandwidth allows us to push complexity forward into different domains. My father still needed to punch card to code and now we can setup an app with a few clicks world wide that uses NN to solve a task and that all by ourself. So demand will be high for cross domain knowledge like Fullstac…

If you're a high skill programmer that has domain knowledge re AI, you'll do very well in the future, whether 5 or 20 years out.

We simultaneously won't need and won't want the majority of software developers that exist today (the sheer number of them), writing code in the future. That would be a bad outcome.

They're going to end up more valuable as prompt wizards and checkpoint decision makers, because the AI will be drastically better at writing code (in all respects) than they could ever be. And they're going to get paid less because more people will be able to do it, software development will become a lot less intimidating as a field. It'll be more mass market as a field, akin to being a nurse (4.2 million registered nurses in the US).

Re: Google Colab will soon introduce AI coding features

#118
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that what they call "full stack" programming?

"full stack" programming is actually incredibly hard since you can no longer push new items once the stack is full. If this happens you better go the route of "stackoverflow" programming.

Totally valid use of an if statement right there.

Re: Google Colab will soon introduce AI coding features

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neat! This interface look simpler than most alternatives I've seen lately. Do you know how it deals with source files that are larger than the context window?

Thanks for checking it out. Right now aider doesn't even try and deal with files larger than the context window. For gpt-4, that's 8k tokens or about 32kbytes. Which is pretty reasonable. According to the data in [1], the average source file in github is less than 14KB. It's worth noting that they explicitly discarded small files with less than 10 lines. So the true average is probably much lower. Regardless, I haven…

For chat, its common to use gpt to summarize previous turns so they consume fewer tokens, while not losing the context completely.

Seems like that could work even better for code, where gpt could compactly summarize what functions do without memorizing all the code.

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