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Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

med.stanford.edu

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Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#61

Post by goda90 »

kypro wrote: post #35

I hate this idea that signals can move the "wrong" way. There have been few days in my adult life that I wouldn't have preferred to not be here. Depression sucks. Yet, I don't think people are right when they tell me I'm wrong to be depressed. I hear that some people feel their depression shouldn't be there and that they should feel happy, and in those cases I think this sounds like it could be an excellent solution,…

>since the logical conclusion should perhaps be that life is pointless and hard

Even if one concludes that life is pointless, depression is not the logical direction to head. Depression makes it harder, and full of pointless suffering. The logical direction to head would be maximizing pleasure despite the pointlessness. Of course that opens a whole can of worms about hedonism, but the point is that depression isn't logical unless you conclude that life should be as miserable as possible, which I wouldn't say is a logical thing to conclude.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#62

Post by rybosworld »

poorbutdebtfree wrote: post #49

Is depression a first world problem? Maybe if we can send over our highly trained and effective therapists to the third world we'd find that 95% are depressed too. It'd make depression much easier to deal with if we knew everybody had it regardless of qualify of life issues.

It is certainly not just a first world problem. There are many problems in advanced nations that get a spotlight on them, but that doesn't mean those problems don't exist in less developed places. In some parts of the world, getting fresh water is the biggest concern. Solving that problem becomes so important that topics like mental health may be completely ignored. I would wager a guess that North Korean citizens rank especially high in prevalence of depression, but it's not even a top 5 concern for them.

The historical record has many descriptions of depression dating all the way to B.C. times. Depression has been a thing that has affected humanity for at least as long as organized civilization has existed.

I think a good question to ask is: Do uncontacted ("lost tribe" cultures if you will) peoples have differing prevalence of depression compared to the connected world?

I don't know the answer to that question, but I wouldn't be surprised if the rates of depression in those cultures is lower.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#63

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

kyleyeats wrote: post #34
marcellus23 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just because they're not chemically addictive doesn't mean they're not addictive. Weed isn't chemically addictive but plenty of people struggle with it nonetheless.

Weed is chemically addictive. Your endocannabinoid system is downregulated for weeks after heavy use. You get withdrawal symptoms which are alleviated by use. I've never seen the phrase "chemically addictive" used by someone who knew what they were talking about. It's only used by people who don't understand that neurotransmitters are chemicals too. Stop spreading this BS distinction.

Yeah, a lot of the withdrawal symptoms are so mild or transient people don't think of them as withdrawal or even make the connection. And people seem to think that anything less severe than shivering and unbearable pain, delirium, doesn't qualify as withdrawal.

The most memorable withdrawal symptom from weed for me was the sweating. Cannabinoids tend to affect the hypothalamus which is sort of like the brain's control module for the endocrine system. And one of the things it controls is temperature regulation. So if you quit cold turkey that all gets outta wack and the sweating happens. Takes at least a couple of weeks to get somewhat back to normal.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#64

Post by bluechair »

tomrod wrote: post #19
JohnMakin wrote: post #6

Unfortunately, TMS is extremely expensive and not likely to be covered by most insurance plans. Even with a decent PPO, I was quoted about $1k a treatment and they said I needed at minimum 30 treatments.

biohacking feasibility?

Biohacking is not feasible at this time—at least in my opinion:

  * TMS machine is a powerful precise device that is expensive and unlikely to be safe from doing-it-yourself
  * Every brain is different, so, you’ll need to get an MRI if not an fMRI to understand the structure to target
  * Once you have a target, you’ll need to align the device with your skull
  * It’s not clear how you’d measure or control the regime on the brain, even if you made it to here
The last thing I’ll say is that you should look for the complaints made against TMS device manufacturers. I’m optimistic that this approach will work for some people; I know many people who could benefit from this technology but I’m not comfortable with recommending it to a family member when I know there’s a risk of permanent brain damage, tinnitus, etc.

Please fact check my claims by visiting the US government database to find complaints against these TMS manufacturers: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfmaude/s...

Top manufacturers should be a Google search away.

You’ll find examples of seizures, etc in there.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#65

Post by hirvi74 »

kyleyeats wrote: post #34
marcellus23 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just because they're not chemically addictive doesn't mean they're not addictive. Weed isn't chemically addictive but plenty of people struggle with it nonetheless.

Weed is chemically addictive. Your endocannabinoid system is downregulated for weeks after heavy use. You get withdrawal symptoms which are alleviated by use. I've never seen the phrase "chemically addictive" used by someone who knew what they were talking about. It's only used by people who don't understand that neurotransmitters are chemicals too. Stop spreading this BS distinction.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but aren't withdrawal symptoms more indicative of a dependency than an addiction?

Cessation of SSRIs can have all kinds of symptoms depending on the time length of usage, but I have never heard someone claim to be addicted to SSRIs.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#66

Post by endisneigh »

ebolyen wrote: post #31
endisneigh wrote: post #21

disclaimer: I acknowledge depression as an illness and state of being. that being said, if you take someone who is objectively "not depressed" and apply these same depression treatments, what would happen? some state of euphoria? heightened mood? happiness? suppose that new state is now the normal state in which people are judged against. now, the before-mentioned person who was not depressed, may be considered depre…

Instead of imagining that it works like a number line and then observing that you can use induction, you could measure outcomes: suicide, suicidal ideation, quality of life, etc. That puts a pretty reasonable lower bound on what is or isn't depressed. It is absolutely an altered state of mind, and an information processing disorder. For anyone who might feel like "it's ok to be depressed", this is not a normal though…

> , this is not a normal thought, and there is no normal amount of suicidal ideation

being depressed doesn't mean you have suicidal ideation, though.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#67

Post by walleeee »

robotburrito wrote: post #53

We are always trying to solve this problem while avoiding the elephant in the room, the current state of society is not very healthy for most people.

There are two truths here which are often taken to preclude one another, but I think they can coexist

1. Depression can be treated and even overcome in some circumstances

2. There are very justifiable reasons many people might be depressed

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#68

Post by stuckinhell »

aszantu wrote: post #60

Don't know who needs to hear this. I started a food diary after an elimination diet which restored my energy levels. I don't know the reasons, but you're looking in a time window of four-seven days. When I stray from my diet (meat and water) one day. I become mentally unstable after 4 days. It says for 3 day, then gets good again. Crying for no reason, ruminating, poor sleep, strong sour smell that can't seem to be r…

thank you for this! I have something very similar

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#69

Post by aszantu »

stuckinhell wrote: post #68
aszantu wrote: post #60

Don't know who needs to hear this. I started a food diary after an elimination diet which restored my energy levels. I don't know the reasons, but you're looking in a time window of four-seven days. When I stray from my diet (meat and water) one day. I become mentally unstable after 4 days. It says for 3 day, then gets good again. Crying for no reason, ruminating, poor sleep, strong sour smell that can't seem to be r…

thank you for this! I have something very similar

Have you noticed something else? I seem to tolerate sour apples and 1 teaspoon of sauerkraut per day, but not much more.

Also garlic seems to be okay, but not onions, chilly powder is okay but not chilli-peppers or pepper, or tomato or seeds in general.

Allergy tests all came back negative

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#70

Post by hirvi74 »

asdfman123 wrote: post #8
e79 wrote: post #3

It’s fascinating how many potential modalities are at play with depression. Serotonin, inflammation, direction of brain signals. This suggests that depression may be a label that points to one of many underlying conditions, which could also explain why it’s so tricky to treat for some individuals.

As someone who has more or less successfully learned to deal with depression, ADHD, anxiety, etc., the trick is basically doing everything considered "healthy." We don't understand all of the mechanisms of long-term illnesses like depression, diabetes, heart disease, Alzheimer's, etc. but we do know how to fight them: exercise and good diet. * Some processes in the human body obviously get disrupted under modern cond…

My issue is that the disorders/symptoms interfere with my ability to do "everything considered healthy."

The ADHD makes it impossible for me to stick to exercise routines as well as other routines. The depressive symptoms make me feel like I am carrying a ball and chain and every little thing requires so much energy.

The worst part is that I am treated for ADHD, and even that has basically any negligible difference anymore.

I feel like I am trapped in a negative feedback loop that I cannot escape.

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