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Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

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Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#161

Post by foobiekr »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #95
kasey_junk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t necessarily believe this position but not a single one of your points argues against the theory that H1b visas are bad for green card/citizen holders during times of layoffs. It’s a perfectly logical (if not humane given current immigration law) position to hold that companies should be required to lay off visa holders first and for there to be a “cooling off” period between layoffs and hiring of visa holders…

> It’s a perfectly logical (if not humane given current immigration law) position to hold that companies should be required to lay off visa holders first and for there to be a “cooling off” period between layoffs and hiring of visa holders. This is really suboptimal though, what if you have a H1B worker that's a high performer in a key position that would make your company collapse if they left but say, they were bor…

It's such a scam to pretend that H1B workers are, on average, high performers in key positions. That isn't the reality, has not ever been the reality, and will not ever be the reality. H1B is about cost of labor, has always been about cost of labor, and will always be about cost of labor.

disclosure: have worked for large h1b heavy shops my entire career, and while there has been the very occasional exception, the bulk of the h1bs are hired entirely for cost reasons.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#162

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Gigachad wrote: post #13
TexanFeller wrote: post #7

Once you switch to full remote, why not hire from Central and South America at maybe 1/4 the price of a Californian.

Americans like to think they have a monopoly on skilled programmers. But the reality is that most countries have them and they will do the same work for a fraction of the price. Everything is done over the internet these days so it doesn't matter that much where you are located.

> Americans like to think they have a monopoly on skilled programmers.

Almost no American in the tech industry thinks that, given how many of our co-workers aren't (or at least weren't born as) American.

> But the reality is that most countries have them and they will do the same work for a fraction of the price.

At the high end of the tech labor market, it is actually a world market for talent, meaning the talent goes where they can make the most money, and bargains are hard to find because people are not so immobile (e.g. due to H1Bs).

> Everything is done over the internet these days so it doesn't matter that much where you are located.

This is true, but top talent is still going to demand top dollar, even if you let them live in a LCOL region, since they can just move to a HCOL region otherwise.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#163

Post by Aperocky »

Frost1x wrote: post #79
thomasahle wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this should be pretty easy to provide evidence for if your holders are say Google Fellows (picking Google as an example) or the Peter Norvigs of the world. Google Fellows wouldn't be on H-1B but on O-1. The H-1B visa is a good fit for foreign nationals in the early to mid-stages of their careers hoping to expand their experience by working in the U.S. The O-1 visa is generally suited for established professionals a…

Very true, I forgot about the O-1 visa distinction. From the DOL ( https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b ), emphasis mine: The H-1B program applies to employers seeking to hire nonimmigrant aliens as workers in specialty occupations or as fashion models of distinguished merit and ability. A specialty occupation is one that requires the application of a body of highly specialized knowledge and the attainmen…

> authorizing the temporary employment

People born in India will be under this "temporary employment" for decades before they get a green card due to the country cap. With recent backlogs it looks like the process will take up to 50 years for someone with a currently approved green card petition.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#164

Post by bastardoperator »

atmavatar wrote: post #115
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a perfectly logical (if not humane given current immigration law) position to hold that companies should be required to lay off visa holders first and for there to be a “cooling off” period between layoffs and hiring of visa holders. This is really suboptimal though, what if you have a H1B worker that's a high performer in a key position that would make your company collapse if they left but say, they were bor…

> what if you have a H1B worker that's a high performer in a key position that would make your company collapse if they left Provide an option for a company to submit some paperwork and pay some non-trivial fee (to avoid gaming) that allows them to exempt such an employee from the visa-first layoff requirement. Additionally, fast track the green card process for whom said exemption is granted.

Isn't that how the H1-B program is supposed to work?

  "The intent of the H-1B provisions is to help employers who cannot otherwise obtain needed business skills and abilities from the U.S. workforce"
I've worked with some awesome folks, but I didn't get the impression that they possessed skills or abilities that are otherwise unobtainable in the United States.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#165

Post by makeitdouble »

ipaddr wrote: post #148
makeitdouble wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On an individual basis that makes sense (in particular if you really handle it like a service exchange contract, with little to no management on how the person do their work) In this day and age though, I wonder how much it actually works . For instance if one of your contractor does something completely illegal in your country and you get media backlash for it, you're in a tight position if that thing was perfectly…

That seems so rare it is not worth worrying about

In the grand scheme, having remote workers not handled by a proxy company is also extremely rare.

And even in that setup, we all remember Nike and many other apparel makers stuck with the "child worker in a factory" image basically forever. Or Apple being questionned about FoxConn's working conditions, or the environmental impact.

When it comes to PR, pushing the responsibility to the foreign contractor doesn't looks like a good working strategy IMHO.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#167

Post by [deleted] »

foobiekr wrote: post #161
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a perfectly logical (if not humane given current immigration law) position to hold that companies should be required to lay off visa holders first and for there to be a “cooling off” period between layoffs and hiring of visa holders. This is really suboptimal though, what if you have a H1B worker that's a high performer in a key position that would make your company collapse if they left but say, they were bor…

It's such a scam to pretend that H1B workers are, on average, high performers in key positions. That isn't the reality, has not ever been the reality, and will not ever be the reality. H1B is about cost of labor, has always been about cost of labor, and will always be about cost of labor. disclosure: have worked for large h1b heavy shops my entire career, and while there has been the very occasional exception, the bu…

[deleted]

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#168

Post by hintymad »

foobiekr wrote: post #161
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a perfectly logical (if not humane given current immigration law) position to hold that companies should be required to lay off visa holders first and for there to be a “cooling off” period between layoffs and hiring of visa holders. This is really suboptimal though, what if you have a H1B worker that's a high performer in a key position that would make your company collapse if they left but say, they were bor…

It's such a scam to pretend that H1B workers are, on average, high performers in key positions. That isn't the reality, has not ever been the reality, and will not ever be the reality. H1B is about cost of labor, has always been about cost of labor, and will always be about cost of labor. disclosure: have worked for large h1b heavy shops my entire career, and while there has been the very occasional exception, the bu…

> It's such a scam to pretend that H1B workers are, on average, high performers in key positions.

I don't think this is what OP meant. OP said "what if you have a H1B worker that's a high performer". This has nothing to do with the average performance of any group. The point is that a blanket mandate that a group should be fired over others first may hurt the livelihood of a company. Note whether this is right or wrong is definitely up to debate, and different countries implement different policies for either side. I'm just clarifying the underlying logic of the OP.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#169

Post by pb7 »

Gigachad wrote: post #121
wyclif wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is precisely what the parent commenter doesn't understand. He thinks the job of a programmer is all about technical skills. In fact that is only a part of the job. You need to be able to write, speak, and communicate in fluent English to be effective. And most Indian nationals, Peruvians, Columbians, et al cannot rise to that level.

There are a huge number of English speaking countries with cultures very similar to the US which have much lower average wages.

Large gaps in timezones though which impacts communication.
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