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Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

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Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#121

Post by Gigachad »

wyclif wrote: post #116
jimbob45 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of what makes a developer valuable is their skill in communication, not their skill in coding.

This is precisely what the parent commenter doesn't understand. He thinks the job of a programmer is all about technical skills. In fact that is only a part of the job. You need to be able to write, speak, and communicate in fluent English to be effective. And most Indian nationals, Peruvians, Columbians, et al cannot rise to that level.

There are a huge number of English speaking countries with cultures very similar to the US which have much lower average wages.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#122

Post by makeitdouble »

bitL wrote: post #98
SoftTalker wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They love having contractors, what they hate is having contractors and the IRS later telling them "no, they are employees, and you owe payroll taxes and penalties for the last 5 years"

That risk is eliminated with foreign contractors. It's import/export of services.

On an individual basis that makes sense (in particular if you really handle it like a service exchange contract, with little to no management on how the person do their work)

In this day and age though, I wonder how much it actually works . For instance if one of your contractor does something completely illegal in your country and you get media backlash for it, you're in a tight position if that thing was perfectly legal on their side, and wasn't covered by the contract as you had your own country's law in mind.

I'm not sure you could push your country's law on them, nor that it would help your situation as your company is still fronting the backlash.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#123

Post by throwaway084087 »

Kinda-sorta reminds me of the movie Moneyball. There were big layoffs, including a number of highly paid people, thus lowering the average prevailing wage. Now even if firms are bringing in foreign workers at the average prevailing wage, that wage is still lower than before the layoffs. An effective play on the system, replacing US workers with cheaper foreign workers.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#124

Post by dheera »

atmavatar wrote: post #115
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a perfectly logical (if not humane given current immigration law) position to hold that companies should be required to lay off visa holders first and for there to be a “cooling off” period between layoffs and hiring of visa holders. This is really suboptimal though, what if you have a H1B worker that's a high performer in a key position that would make your company collapse if they left but say, they were bor…

> what if you have a H1B worker that's a high performer in a key position that would make your company collapse if they left Provide an option for a company to submit some paperwork and pay some non-trivial fee (to avoid gaming) that allows them to exempt such an employee from the visa-first layoff requirement. Additionally, fast track the green card process for whom said exemption is granted.

> Additionally, fast track the green card process for whom said exemption is granted.

Yes, this. Or alternatively, in an economy where everyone is getting laid, the 60 day deadline should be extended indefinitely until the economy recovers and similar jobs start becoming available and plentiful, at which point they can consider reinstating the employment requirements.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#125

Post by testbjjl »

darth_avocado wrote: post #17

There are multiple missing things for this: 1. Layoffs happened regardless of visa status, so visa workers were part of the layoffs. 2. The visa applications for H1B could be for workers already working in the company under a different visa like TN or F1 3. The positions affected by layoffs and positions filing for H1B could be different. For example, a front end position may be affected by layoffs, but the visa appl…

That’s a lot of nuance when the actual events are much more plausible.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#126

Post by s1artibartfast »

kasey_junk wrote: post #82
darth_avocado wrote: post #17

There are multiple missing things for this: 1. Layoffs happened regardless of visa status, so visa workers were part of the layoffs. 2. The visa applications for H1B could be for workers already working in the company under a different visa like TN or F1 3. The positions affected by layoffs and positions filing for H1B could be different. For example, a front end position may be affected by layoffs, but the visa appl…

I don’t necessarily believe this position but not a single one of your points argues against the theory that H1b visas are bad for green card/citizen holders during times of layoffs. It’s a perfectly logical (if not humane given current immigration law) position to hold that companies should be required to lay off visa holders first and for there to be a “cooling off” period between layoffs and hiring of visa holders…

Visas always are bad for citizen workers, full stop. They are always competition blunting the labor market.

It is always good to be labor in a labor constrained market, and the lower supply, the better.

I don't see how any liberalization could help local workers in the short term (I assume liberalization means expansion in this context).

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#127

Post by jeffbee »

wyclif wrote: post #116
jimbob45 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of what makes a developer valuable is their skill in communication, not their skill in coding.

This is precisely what the parent commenter doesn't understand. He thinks the job of a programmer is all about technical skills. In fact that is only a part of the job. You need to be able to write, speak, and communicate in fluent English to be effective. And most Indian nationals, Peruvians, Columbians, et al cannot rise to that level.

92.2% of the American-born native English speakers I work with can't write worth a damn, either.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#128

Post by AmericanChopper »

bitL wrote: post #98
SoftTalker wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They love having contractors, what they hate is having contractors and the IRS later telling them "no, they are employees, and you owe payroll taxes and penalties for the last 5 years"

That risk is eliminated with foreign contractors. It's import/export of services.

It’s actually made substantially worse by the fact that every jurisdiction that you “hire” a remote worker in is another jurisdiction whose laws you have to comply with. An American contractor suing an American company in a Californian court is at least a risk their legal department should know how to manage. An Australian contractor suing an American company in an Australian court, followed up by an Australian labor authority taking action against them for say not paying proper sick leave entitlements, is something they’d be much less equipped to handle. Then just multiply that by the number of jurisdictions they hire these remote workers in, which is information they might not even have.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#129

Post by cjbgkagh »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #126
kasey_junk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t necessarily believe this position but not a single one of your points argues against the theory that H1b visas are bad for green card/citizen holders during times of layoffs. It’s a perfectly logical (if not humane given current immigration law) position to hold that companies should be required to lay off visa holders first and for there to be a “cooling off” period between layoffs and hiring of visa holders…

Visas always are bad for citizen workers, full stop. They are always competition blunting the labor market. It is always good to be labor in a labor constrained market, and the lower supply, the better. I don't see how any liberalization could help local workers in the short term (I assume liberalization means expansion in this context).

It’s worse than that, it’s the citizenry subsidizing the business as the business can pay less by offering immigration as part of the package which is desirable due to the investments of the citizenry. The citizenry has to compete with a service they’re subsidizing.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#130

Post by thaumasiotes »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #128
bitL wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That risk is eliminated with foreign contractors. It's import/export of services.

It’s actually made substantially worse by the fact that every jurisdiction that you “hire” a remote worker in is another jurisdiction whose laws you have to comply with. An American contractor suing an American company in a Californian court is at least a risk their legal department should know how to manage. An Australian contractor suing an American company in an Australian court, followed up by an Australian labor…

> An Australian contractor suing an American company in an Australian court, followed up by an Australian labor authority taking action against them for say not paying proper sick leave entitlements

Does "contractor" mean something different to you than it does to everyone else? This would be like me buying an iPhone and then Apple suing me for not paying proper sick leave entitlements.

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